How are you at closing your deals? Did you know that over half of the sales professionals today don’t even ask to close the deal?

This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl is joined by the modern-day authority on closing, the incomparable James Muir, author of the best-selling “The Perfect Close” and VP of Sales at Essential Hub. Darryl and James discuss some easily applicable best practices for advancing the sale process to close the deal. They share advice on the psychology of the ask, a winning formula for your value prop, and the 3 important pre-call questions you should be asking yourself before you even pick up the phone. Learn how you can close more deals on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!







Host: Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: James Muir,


Darryl Praill: Another week has gone by, we’re back together again. How are you doin’? Hey, I got a question for ya, serious question. What do you think of Paul? Every week you guys hear Paul give the intro and what do you think of the music? You know, I never actually asked you guys that. Do you like the intro? Do you like the music? And then, next question, how many of you actually just fast-forward, right, hit that, you know, plus 30, plus 60, plus 10, plus 15, whatever plus button you got to fast-forward.

Darryl Praill: When it starts do you just like skip it automatically and say, I wanna get right to the Praill? In fact, if I know you, what you’re probably doing, is you’re skipping me right now because you’re ah, Praill yaddles and praddles on non-stop at the start the of the show. I get it, I get tired of hearing me talk, too. So with that let me know, send me a message. I wanna hear from you, I wanna know what you think of the music and what you think of Paul. Should I fire Paul? Should I keep Paul? Is Paul a closer? Does he close the deal and make you wanna listen to me?

Darryl Praill: You’re hearing my guest in the background laughing, it’s all gonna make sense momentarily, but I wanted to share a story. So today’s topic it’s a fun topic and let me tell a personal story, I’m gonna set the stage, here we go. When I was a young lad. When I was a young lad, I had a couple of challenges, getting to the point of getting married, all right. The first part was I had to actually get the young lady, my now wife, to actually agree to even spend time with me, to date me, to know that I’m even alive, if you will.

Darryl Praill: I know you don’t have that problem, but you didn’t see me when I was in school, I had a lot working against me. And you know, the funny part was she flirted with me first. There’s a whole story there, she actually initiated and then I’m like, hm she’s cute and let’s see what happens here. And then when I got to know her a little better, turns out there’s another guy on the scene. Another guy on the scene. Now what’s working against me? What sales challenges did I have as I pursued this deal and tried to close it?

Darryl Praill: The challenges I had was this other fellow was a tall lad, six-two, six-three, slender, basically and you know what I’m talkin’ about when I say this, he looked a lot like her father as a physical specimen and we all tend to want to marry our mothers or our fathers, do we not? My mom, five foot two, tiny, little blonde. I thought I was gonna marry a tiny, little blonde. It’s weird the psychology, so I’m competing with this innate desire for this young lady to leave this man she’s with and spend time with me instead, so we have this back and forth and I’m workin’ on my early, early years sales mojo magic, tryin’ to create some compelling value propositions.

Darryl Praill: And then eventually, you know, we get to the point that we get him out of the way. Whoop, he’s gone, yeah Darryl. Now we’re from top of funnel to middle of the funnel, life is good. We’re workin’ it and it’s going well, it’s going really well, right. We’re spending time together, you know fast forward over a year, we’re an item, all that wonderful stuff and I think, I wanna do this, I wanna close the deal. I wanna close the deal, so I actually call up her parents and who I only really met a handful of times.

Darryl Praill: And I’m like, hey, I wanna come and drive an hour to where they live and can we maybe break bread? And oh, well is she coming with you, the daughter? No, she’s not, it’s just me. And they’re like, oh, okay. So up we go, I drive there. My girlfriend at the time has no idea what I’m doing, we go there and we go and we have the meal. Yes, it was awkward, lots of small talk, it’s what you do, right? Yadda, yadda, yadda, when it’s all said and done I say to him, he’s a very old-fashioned school kind of guy, I said, hey, Dad, can we go for a walk?

Darryl Praill: And now they’re in the country. He’s like, sure. So go for a walk, Darryl doesn’t go for walks, I’m going for a walk. We go for a walk down this old country lane and it’s gravel, the sun is setting and he’s just waiting. You know he’s just waiting for whatever it is that’s on my mind. And I finally say to him, you know I want your permission for your daughter’s hand in marriage. And he gets this big smile on his face and you see almost this exhale and he’s like absolutely, no problem. So why did he smile? Why did he exhale?

Darryl Praill: Because when we go back to have some coffee and tea and cookies and whatever it was we had at that day to celebrate, the pie, and that I’m gonna pop the question. It turns out they thought I was coming up to say your daughter’s pregnant, here’s what’s happening next, so I closed the deal. I closed the deal, we got married, and it’s been 30 years plus together now, life is good.

Darryl Praill: My point is your sales cycle goes in many paths, there’s gonna be lots of little victories you have to come, you have to close every single one of those steps so you can ultimately close the deal.

Welcome James Muir

Darryl Praill: So I thought, let’s talk about closing the deal, so what did I do? I said, well, my goodness, who wrote the book, “The Perfect Close.” Well, my goodness, it’s James Muir. Do you know James Muir? If you don’t, you should. Go to to follow him. By the way, yes, if you haven’t figured out yet, you’re damn right he’s speaking at OutBound, this will be his third time there, so if you’ve been there before, you’ve probably heard him talking about tactical prospecting, but this time he’s talking about the perfect close, how you can do it, what you need to know. He’s got a whole bunch of stuff going out, but we’ve got a preview here right now, so if you can’t go to OutBound, you listen to him now. If you like what you hear what he says now, then you should go see him at OutBound. My friend, James, welcome to the show. How are you, sir?

James Muir: I am very good, thank you for having me on, Darryl. And thank you and VanillaSoft for sponsoring the greatest sales show on earth, which is the OutBound Conference. So your story, there’s a whole lesson on reference points. Some day, we have to use that to illustrate reference point, right, where you set an expectation if their expectation was easy time closing it.

Darryl Praill: It’s true, you know it’s like price. If they think the price is gonna be at a certain point, you can manage the expectations, you know maybe they think it’s gonna be really up here, when the price is down here they go ah, even though it’s still really expensive they go great, let’s do it, let’s do the deal. They thought she was gonna be pregnant, she wasn’t pregnant, they were happy, I got the deal, so it’s all about references, I love it.

James Muir: That’s right. That’s why you never discount your initial proposal.

Darryl Praill: I like it, I like it. Oh man, she’s gonna freak when she hears I told this story. That’s too funny. Now I gotta ask. Okay, now for those of you who don’t know James, I did allude to this already, I mean this guy, he’s been everywhere, right. He’s been on all the networks, CBS, FOX, NBC, ABC. He’s a best-selling author, he’s an advisor. You know he’s the man when you want to make your sales organization whether it’s you or the team or the company go to the next level. That’s James.

Darryl Praill: So go follow him on Twitter, go to his website,, check him out.

Closing the Deal

Darryl Praill: But I gotta ask you, you did write the book called, “The Perfect Close.” What was the catalyst for writing that book? Because a lot of people are saying well, this is how you sell and this is how you do a cold call, this is yadda, yadda, but you’re the jump to the end, this is how you close. What was your rationale?

James Muir: You and I are very similar. You were a technical person first and then sales second, right, sales and marketing second. Well, I was an operations person, so I’m an accidental sales person and I thrust into sales and I remember I used to go out with the salespeople before that thinking, oh man, I hope I never have to do this. So we ended up acquiring a business in another place where they needed an operations person that could sell and then voila, I got drafted into sales and it turned it out that I’m actually perfectly cut out for sales, I love every bit of if, but I can tell ya at the time I didn’t know anything about it.

James Muir: So much of what is in the book is actually really my discovery of how do I, I had read all these different books on closing and I actually was losing deals all over the place because I was using these really old-school, high-pressure tactics as though this was gospel, so I’ve probably made every mistake that you can make. And so later when I started managing my own team, just a challenge that them had and also I have managed subject matter experts where they would go with them and again, if there was any part of the sale that they hate the worst, it’s advancing the sale, it’s closing. And so this was written originally for me, but for my teams as time went on.

You Gotta Ask For Something

Darryl Praill: I love it. This is your story, this is your journey and you’re like well, if I’m here then so are other people and boom, there you go and before you know it, you’ve got a best-selling book. All right, so when we were talking about this, you and I were kind of sharing stories and you made an interesting comment. You talked about, and I’m paraphrasing, you’re gonna correct me and tell the audience the real verbiage, okay? But you effectively said, you know in the process, in the sales process, you gotta ask, you gotta ask for something. So maybe set the stage for me about that whole concept.

James Muir: Sure, well so the interesting thing is is there are certainly lots of bad closes out there and there’s been lots of science steppin’ around those closes to make sure that, to help us understand what works and doesn’t work, but you might be surprised to discover that the problem of not asking at all is a much bigger problem than asking in the wrong way and in fact, 50 to 90% of all sales encounters across all industries end without any person asking for any kind of a commitment at all, right? Which is terrible, right?

James Muir: That’s exactly what we’ve been hired for and so it varies a little bit by industry, but the low number is 50%, so why is that the case? And what I would tell you if you said hey James, why do you think that that’s so bad? It’s that most of the tactics that are being taught out there are actually counter-productive and they actually hurt your relationship with the other person and we’re so worried that we’re gonna destroy the relationship or harm it in some way that rather than use one of these tactics that’s manipulative, we just don’t do anything.

James Muir: And that’s what I see happening out there, so that’s really the science behind why don’t people ask, but when it does come time to ask, there’s data that tells us what works the best and a company called has analyzed over a million sales calls from SDRs over the phone to analyze which way of advancing the sale is the most effective way and I thought that would be something that your audience would appreciate knowing, right?

James Muir: And as it turns out, probably no surprise that someone on your show that that way is the perfect close and so there are two basic questions of the perfect close and the very simple, very first question. And maybe before I tell what the question is I should say, you know before you go into any meeting, you should kind of have an idea of what you wanna get out of the meeting, right? That would be a good idea.

James Muir: So you should have an ideal advance, what’s the best thing that can happen? And then you should also have a couple of backup advances as alternates just in case our ideal advance isn’t realistic and if you don’t know what an advance is, a guy named Neil Rackham, who did the largest sales study ever done, he coined those phrases. An advance is moving the sale forward in a little way is what that is and then there’s another term he coined that’s useful to know, it’s called a continuation. A continuation is a scenario where the sale didn’t move forward, but it isn’t ending either, so it just kinda continues. All right? So with that backdrop, Darryl, the magic question is does it make sense for us to X? That’s it. Does it make sense for us to X?

Darryl Praill: Did you see the difference? That was the ask, that was it right there, it was really subtle. You know, blah, blah, does it make sense for us to continue the conversation? Does it make sense for us to demonstrate how we can fix your problems? Blah, blah, blah. Of course, again, you do it way better than I do, but that was the ask. Does it make sense to? Okay, remember guys, the theory, the premise of INSIDE Inside Sales is we’re gonna help you be 1% marginally better, one actual piece of advice. Today’s, does it make sense to? We can stop now, we don’t need to talk anymore. It’s done, right, that’s it?

ames Muir: There you go. Of course, as it turns out there’s a second part, right? So when you teach this to folks, hands down the number one thing they’re worried about is well, what if they say no? Right? And so there’s only two things they can say that doesn’t make sense, they’re either gonna say yes or they’re gonna say no. If they say yes awesome, right? You got your advance. If they say, no, then you’re just gonna use the follow-up question and there’s actually several different variations, but the most basic, kindergarten version follow-up question is throwing the ball back to the customer and just say okay, well what do you think is a good next step?

James Muir: Okay, now there’s better things to do than that, just so you know, but that’s a very, well I can tell ya, I’ve been on hundreds of ride-alongs and what will happen is in 90% of the cases, the customer will actually just suggest a very logical next step for where they’re at in their buying process right now. And probably the more important thing in both of those questions is that neither one’s high pressure, is that they’re both zero pressure, they’re both non-confrontational and they leave you emotionally on a much, much higher ground regardless of how the person answers.

James Muir: And if I say, hey, will you buy my stuff and they say no, we’re kind of tanked at that point, but if I say does it make sense and they say no, they haven’t really said no, I’m not gonna buy your stuff because that’s not what I asked. I just asked if the timing was right. And so at it’s core, does it make sense is really a timing question, it’s not a commitment question. But the good news is that they can see the direction we’re headed, right? And so you’re telegraphing what you’re gonna ask next if they say yes to that. And so it just leaves us emotionally at a much higher ground than anything else and it’s great that the science has proven that it just works out. It’s a much of a more of a high EQ type of way of advancing the sale.

Darryl Praill: So what I love about what you’re saying. Anybody who’ll listen to me, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. It’s not what you ask, it’s how you ask it, right? Everybody can handle a big boy, a big girl question. And you did just that. Does it make sense to? And it is a timing aspect, but you’re also seeking their opinion and no one can leave it just hanging if they say no. Well, they’re not gonna say no. If they do go silent, you’re just gonna say, okay, help me understand that or what do you think does make sense?

Darryl Praill: Like you’re saying, you’re throwing it back at them every single time. But chances are they’re gonna say, no, because. Because we’re all conditioned socially that that’s how the conversation is supposed to go. And you’re not the bad person, you’re just asking the question, does it make sense? You’re seeking their input. And the beauty of that is remember, they kind of feel in control. Does it make sense? Well, I’m gonna tell you if it makes sense or not, therefore I’m in control, therefore this is not a sales call, we’re just having a conversation.

Darryl Praill: And I kinda like you because we’re having a respectful conversation. That’s brilliant. That’s the ask. And you allude to the psychology of it, right, when you kind of said, well what’s the worst case that’s gonna happen? If they say yes, great. And if they say no, you’re gonna say, okay, well what does make sense? So don’t fear the rejection. Or as Andrea Waltz likes to say, if you do fear the rejection then go for the no.

Darryl Praill: So I love what you’re saying there, so we’re gonna take a quick break, but when we come back I’m gonna ask James ’cause you talked about this a little bit, you talked about before you get into a call you gotta prep. He made that reference. I’m gonna ask him to give us what questions should we be prepared to address before we ever even get to the part where you say, does it make sense to whatever. All right, don’t go anywhere, we’ll be right back.

3 Questions to Address

Darryl Praill: Okay so on the commercial, did you fast forward again? You fast-forwarded over Paul, did you fast forward over the commercial or do you listen? I’m just kinda curious, what’s the connection there? Talk to me. Or did you use that time to ignore the commercial and to ponder, hm, what are the questions I should be prepared to know the answers to before I ever get to the point where I’m saying does it make sense to? Paul, talk to me. Paul, where did Paul? I got Paul in my head now! James! Talk to me. Give me the answer, what three questions should we be prepared to, or more, or less, to address?

James Muir: There are three magic pre-call questions that you should answer before you go into any call or any encounter at all and the first one of those is why should the client see me? Right? In fact, let me tell ya all three, and then we can dig down. The three questions are why should this client see me? What do I want the client to do? And how can I provide value on this encounter? Those three things, that’s the three questions you should ask before every call. And I’m all about keeping it simple, right? So for pre-call prep, that’s pretty simple.

James Muir: So the first question, why should this client see me? What that does is that’s getting right to the core of the value proposition. Why should I spend even a minute with you if there’s not some win in it for me, right? And a huge mistake that a lot of prospecting people do is say, hey, I wanna get 30 minutes on your calendar so that you can tell me about your business. Folks, there’s no value in that at all, zero, so you need to have a value proposition and just to keep it really simple, there’s a formula for value prop. It is direction plus metric plus magnitude.

James Muir: So a metric is let’s just say it’s accounts receivable. Or in sales, it would be like a close ratio. Okay a close-ratio is a metric. So we help people improve close ratios by 22% or more. That is an example of a value prop and so you need to know what the hard value is that you bring before you ever meet with a customer and you should have a value hypothesis when you go in there. Like hey, I think I can improve your close ratios by 22%. Okay that is the reason that they should see you and you should have a couple.

James Muir: You need to have a value prop for everything that you do as well as the individual elements within your software, so for example, VanillaSoft does a lot of different things. There is a value prop for every little feature inside of VanillaSoft, right, and we should be able to articulate what that is, so that’s the first question. The second one is, what do I want the client to do? And that gets to what we were just talkin’ about a second ago, that is we should have an ideal advance, what’s the best thing that we could hope for this, as well as a couple of alternatives.

James Muir: And you can use those in a couple different ways. Let’s just say I say, hey, does it make sense for us to schedule an assessment to see what our best options are? If they say no to that, I could say, all right, well sometimes clients at this other stage do this other thing, does it make sense for us to do that? Now do you see how facilitative it is? We’re just falling back to our second advance, right? Now the interesting thing about preparing the advances, right, they’re answering the question, what do I want the client to do, is you could also use them as an add-on, right?

James Muir: So if I had a client say, yeah, I would love to do that and you go, great. You know what? Sometimes clients at this stage also do this other thing, should we do that, too? Right? And then boom, they give me that and so we call that the add-on, where we just keep piling on the advances. Either way, the key is preparing before you go into the call, what are the things that you would like to have happened as a result of the call? Okay? And then the last one is how can I provide value? And here’s the interesting thing is there was some research done a few years ago that discovered that there was a scenario under which clients are more likely to pay a premium.

James Muir: They’re more willing to pay more for a solution than not and there were three scenarios where that was true and that is that the seller identified an unanticipated solution, okay, a solution that they didn’t expect. The seller identified an unrecognized problem, so there was some problem or challenge they didn’t realize they had, right, the client didn’t and the seller identified some kind of unseen opportunity, an opportunity they didn’t know about.

James Muir: Now here’s the thing, all three of those have a really interesting similarity and that is they are unexpected by the client. So what we wanna do is we wanna provide some form of unexpected value on the call. We wanna make our call inherently valuable so that it’s worth being with us. And let me just tell you, if you’re not doing that then the client can get everything they need off the internet, they really don’t need you, right? So it’s important for us to build up our subject matter and our domain expertise so that we can be adding value on every single call.

Why Should They See Me?

Darryl Praill: Wow, okay. Folks, you probably can’t. For those who are watching the video, I have a wonderful, little iPad down here where I take down a thousand notes and I try to keep up with my guy so I can come back and actually sound like I know what I’m talkin’ about. And he just went bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. So if you’re like me, you’re going, that was brilliant. What did he say again? So, let’s go to go back. You had a wonderful formula for value prop and the value prop, remember, was in response to the first question he asked, which was why should they see me, all right. So your formula, you say your value prop is direction plus, what was your second point there?

James Muir: A metric, right, it’s like how do you measure whether you improve something or not is our metric, right? So in finance, it would be accounts receivable or EBITDA or it’s something that can be measured.

Darryl Praill: And it was a direction plus metric equals magnitude or plus magnitude?

James Muir: No, no, plus magnitude. So magnitude is, ’cause here’s the thing is if you come to a source and say, hey I can improve your close ratio, the next thing in their head is well, how much? Is it a lot or is it a little? Right, so a business person wants to know the how much question, so you don’t just, and plus anybody in the world can say, hey, I can make your life better in a generic way, but when you put a metric to it and you create a measurement around it, it’s much, much more compelling. So that’s why a value prop needs to have the metric that you’re changing, it needs to have the direction, like lowering costs.

James Muir: If you just say hey, I can lower costs, well that is technically there’s some value there, but it’s very ephemeral because you didn’t measure it, so the magnitude answers the how much are you gonna lower my costs, right? So if I said, hey, for organizations that have this thing that you have, we can lower your costs by 10 to 15%. Great, now they understand what the potential upside is for working with you because you’ve articulated it. And that’s a very simple value prop, very simple, so it’s the direction, the metric, and the magnitude, those three elements and you can kind of juggle ’em around a little bit differently depending on what’s most comfortable for you in how to say it.

Darryl Praill: Okay, so folks we’ve said 1% marginally better. Today maybe 2% marginally better because the first one was does it make sense to. The second one he snuck in there in all of this discussion is that value prop and I’m stoppin’ there because I know a lot of you struggle, especially early in your career. You struggle with that, what is my value prop? You know, why you? The question was why should they see me? And that’s a valid question.

Darryl Praill: Why pick up this phone as a buyer and you go, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just wanna know, what are you selling? What’s in it for me? Do I care? That’s it and if you say something like I go, oh, I care, I care about that, then the conversation’s gonna continue. So that’s brilliant. Value prop, can you do this now? If not, this is your homework, is your direction plus your metric plus your magnitude. Let’s table that.

What’s the Call-to-Action?

Darryl Praill: One of the things that I thought was so funny, is I was listening to you saying you know, the ask. You talked about the ask, the ask, the ask. We marketers call that what’s the call to action?

James Muir: C-T-A, yeah, the call to action.

Darryl Praill: Right. And I can’t tell ya how many emails I read or social media posts, whatever, and it’s just like blah, blah, blah and I’m done reading it and I go okay, now what, what do you want me to do? You know that was a waste of my time, so–

James Muir: Dear old CTA.

How Can I Add Value?

Darryl Praill: Marketers have a call to action. You know sales reps, you have the ask. So the art of closing is basically making sure that you want to always advance. Remember you want to advance or minimally at least have that continuation and the trick to there is does it make sense, so make sure you’re equipped before you ever go into that meeting so you can make that ask. You need to know why should they see me. What do I want the client to do, and how can I add value on that encounter? Now my gut, James, is that most of them struggle with how can I add value on the encounter. That’s just my gut. What’s your thought process? What’s your experience saying?

James Muir: There is and so I go into some length in the book, it’s one thing to say hey, you need to add value on your sales encounter, it’s another thing to tell you exactly how to do it. And so there are, in fact, seven different ways to do that. We can do that on another podcast or they can go get the book, but there are seven different ways to add value. The number one way that we can share which is you need to provide insight of some kind, that’s the number one best in terms of impact way that you can add value to a sales encounter is to turn on the light bulb for the customer in some way that they haven’t realized before. If you do that, that’s gonna make the visit itself inherently valuable regardless of the outcome for them and they’ll be grateful that they met with you.

Darryl Praill: So what I like about this conversation today ’cause the conversation was around the perfect close and I’m reminded of the A-B-Cs, you know, always be closing, but when we hear A-B-C, we think that’s closing the deal when the reality is what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to advance the deal. Like with my wife, I closed the deal in little increments, right, always moving the ball forward until she was finally naive and silly enough to say I do. Boom, deal done, all right.

James Muir: The interesting thing about that, Darryl, is that Neil Rackham discovered in his study that in a complex sale, now simple sales are different, right, they can sometimes be closed in a single encounter, but in complex sales what he found is that nine out of 10 encounters actually resulted in either an advance where the sale moved forward in a little way, just like you said, or a continuation where the sale’s gonna continue, but really no progress was made. Right, that’s what happened in nine out of 10 encounters, so like you said, when we talk about closing we’re really talking about advancing the sale in all the little steps until we get to the big step.

Darryl Praill: You got it, you nailed it. Okay, so if you guys like that, James made lots of references to the book, “The Perfect Close,” 4.8 out of five stars. A boat-frickin’ load of reviews online, go check it out ’cause all of the actual substance is there. We’re limited to time, but he just spells it out for you, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Read it because hey, learning is earning, right? There’s my cliche for the day. James, you’re gonna be at the show, so anybody who, here we go, two-part question. If I’m thinkin’ of goin’ to the show, give me a reason to put me over the top, the OutBound Conference.

James Muir: Man, it is literally, I’ve been to tons of shows. There is hands down no better show. You will not get the quality of the speakers. The other thing it is is a ton of events that I’ve been to are basically pitch fests where somebody will say something and then the last 15 minutes of what they’re saying is trying to sell you something. You will not get even one pitch in this entire thing. It is a hundred percent pure content, the best of the best get there. There’s 2,000, they sold it out last year, I’m sure they’re gonna sell it out again this year. It’s totally worth the time and the investment to go, you can’t get the kind of quality and the density of education around sales that you can get at OutBound, hands down.

Darryl Praill: And I will tell you that I’ve had conversations with the four anchors of the show, Blount, Hunter, Iannorino, and Antonio and they’re all just like no pitching! It’s like it’s in their DNA, so there’s that. Best way to reach you, I gave it at the beginning of the show, but back at you. James, best way to reach you?

James Muir: Really the best way is, P-U-R-E-M-U-I-R dot com, and to sign up for the newsletter there is the best way. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, but I have 30,000 connections and so LinkedIn has put a limit on how many connections you can have right now, so right now you can follow, but maybe someday. But I am very active on LinkedIn, you can follow me on Twitter if you want to, as well, it’s just B2B_salestips is my Twitter handle and you’re welcome to follow me on Facebook if you want to see my personal stuff, I don’t care. I’m happy to engage with anybody.

Darryl Praill: So there you have it, that’s another episode, folks, in the books of INSIDE Inside Sales, the only show focused on making sure you are a little bit better now than when we started the show about a half-hour ago. I’m Darryl Praill, I’m with VanillaSoft. Thank you for spending time, we shall talk to you soon. Take care, bye-bye.