David Priemer is an award-winning scientist and the founder of Cerebral Selling. According to David, the better you are at listening, the better your chances are at making a sale. So why is it so easy to say, yet so difficult to do? We delve into this topic and provide five very easy tips to improve your listening skillset. Put your multitasking on hold, listen to the podcast, pay attention, and hit that quota!


Darryl Praill: Thank you, Paul. How you doing today, folks? My name is Darryl Praill. I am your guest on INSIDE Inside Sales, the only sales podcast where we talk about the pragmatic, tactical, actionable content that makes you more successful every single day in your job as a sales professional. We don’t talk strategy, we don’t talk vision. We just talk real life.

Darryl Praill: So, I’m really excited about today’s conversation because, I gotta to tell you, this is something that I’ve been very guilty of not doing on more than one occasion. And you’re probably saying yourself, well what is that, Darryl? Because that doesn’t really narrow it down for us. You’re guilty of doing a lot of things on many occasions. You are a bad, bad boy. And while this is true, let me share today’s topic with you.

Darryl Praill: You know how you’re sitting here right now listening to this episode? Well, you see that’s a skill. And in fact, that’s a skill that most people don’t use to its optimal course, let’s call it that. Today’s conversation, we’re talking about how to be a better listener. Stats will tell you that if you’re talking way more than you are listening in your sales calls, then you’re not gonna be successful. And then if you’re talking, what you’re not hearing is the pains, the problems, the issues and challenges that the client is trying to share with you. Further, even if you are listening in your mind but your head is going forward to that next step to say, I wanna ask them this, and I wanna ask them that, then you’re not really listening. You’re just pausing. And then you miss the important stuff. It’s all that stuff that they say that’s gonna make your value prop better and give you the tools, the breadcrumbs you need to close more deals and win more sales.

Darryl Praill: So today’s all about how to be a better listener. And as I said, I’m not the best person about that, but let me introduce you to David Priemer. Now, from his early days tinkering with test tubes and differential equations as an award-winning scientist, don’t you love that, an award-winning scientist, to leading top-performing sales teams at high-growth tech startups, David Priemer brings a life-long passion for uncovering the hidden insights in the world around us. His practice, as the founder of Cerebral Selling.

Darryl Praill: David, how you doing, man? Welcome to the show.

David Priemer: Oh, pleasure Darryl. Great to be with you here. That’s, it was quite an energetic introduction. So, yeah. This is gonna be, I think it’s gonna be a good show.

Darryl Praill: Yeah, I have a bit of a reputation for being really boring and monotone. I’m working on that, as you can tell. So I’d say, it’s a fight every single day.

Darryl Praill: I love this topic. Now, talk to me, I gotta ask. You call yourself a scientist, a sales scientist. What’s the scoop on that?

David Priemer: Yeah, no, so it’s a, I assure you it’s a hundred-percent legit. I started my career … So first of all, and I know everyone here on the call listening to the podcast is probably in sales, and the running joke about sales is that no one ever, as they were growing up going to school, said, “Hey, you know what I wanna be when I grow up, is I wanna be in sales.” No one ever says that. And so it’s just really all a matter of, well where did we all come from? We all came from someplace different, and my place happened to be, I started my career as a research scientist. I was actually, so I’m from Toronto. I was doing graduate work in the engineering at the University of Toronto here, building computer models, of all things. And this was around kinda the turn of the dot com boom, where there was an influx of hiring happening from science and technology streams into tech companies that were flourishing at the time. And that’s how I got into sales.

David Priemer: I started my career as a solution engineer, but yeah. No, I was doing tons of research. I published journals and scientific articles in scientific journals. And I’ve always have been very, very curious about the world. And when I got into sales, I kinda just took that same curiosity and applied it to the world of selling, which, as you know, is very curious to begin with. There’s a lot of weird things that happen in sales. There’s people, relationships, quotas. And sales has changed so much over the last 20 years. So it’s been a real amazing ride to kind of experience the changing systems and applying some of the tactics and strategies that I’ve used in my scientific career to the sales gig.

Darryl Praill: All right, so I gotta share with you. Some people who listen to this show on a regular basis, they know this already, so for those people I apologize sharing this story again. But it’s new to David, and I love telling stories new to somebody who has a fresh sense of appreciation for my stories. You talk about, we all come from somewhere, right? So, my education was, I was a computer programmer, and I did that for almost eight years before I ultimately ended up in marketing. But you said, you said your first gig was as a solutions engineer. My first gig that got me on this road was as a sales engineer. So not that different.

David Priemer: It’s exactly the same. I think the, that we use the same title interchangeably.

Darryl Praill: Yeah, I think we did.

David Priemer: Yes.

Darryl Praill: I was being polite. But it’s true. And that’s literally, so for me, I went from, which is, I can totally see how this goes, I went from being that sales engineer to being product manager, being product marketing, to being marketing, and then to being, well that point time, I was then a VP sales and marketing. And so I’ve had multiple bags. But it’s an interesting segue, so you’re like a kindred spirit. So that’s kinda cool. I like that.

Darryl Praill: Now, listening. Talk to me. How, again, for those who haven’t listened to the show before, it’s really straightforward. I find these really interesting people who are out there, and I kinda say, I see what they’re talking about, and I’m like, oh, oh that’s what I wanna talk about. And that’s how you and I hooked up. Listening, though. I mean, how does that come to be? I mean, there’s gotta be a back story there that makes this topic so passionate for you, and I wanna hear what, how that happened.

David Priemer: Yeah. For sure. Well look, listening is tough. Listening, in general, is kinda, especially for men, if I can say that. We like to jump in and solve problems, and we’re not generally good listeners. Listening, for many people, especially in sales, is kinda like going to the gym. Easy to say, hard to do. Yeah, I’ll be a good listener. But it’s not something that we often practice. And I found kinda two things. Number one, as I kinda transition from a career in the sales trenches, and I spent my 20 years across four startups, and then I spent five years at Salesforce after they acquired my third startup. I saw a lot of sales reps, and I had a lot of young, enthusiastic reps on my team. And we all know that oftentimes in selling, the quality of the discovery that we do with our customers, the better the questions that we ask, and so the more we listen, the better the sale cycle goes.

[bctt tweet=”👂 Listening, for many people, especially in sales, is kinda like going to the gym. 🏋 Easy to say, hard to do. ~ @dpriemer #SellingTips #ActiveListening” username=”VanillaSoft”]

David Priemer: And it’s interesting. I actually think, when I think about better sale cycles, I’m not even saying winning sale cycles, I’m talking at figuring out if this is a customer that has a problem that we can solve, and do they believe we can solve it. And if we can, we move forward, and if we can’t, we cut it off and we don’t move forward. So this idea of losing fast and winning fast is all traced back to doing quality discovery, which is in turn related to the quality of the listening that we do. So that was kind of a, the first thing. I saw how important listening was to discovery.

David Priemer: Then the other thing that kind of sparked my curiosity, and I wrote an article about this recently, there was a report from Salesforce. They called it the 2018 State of Sales Report. I think this was the second or third year they put this out. Tons of research, tons of data. It’s an awesome free report. Go download it. One of the questions they ask in this report is they ask salespeople to list a number of factors in order of priority in terms of having an extreme or substantial impact on their ability to convert prospects into customers. So they list all these things. And number one on the list is listening. And more interesting almost than that, number 10 on the list, is demonstrating ROI. So it’s almost, the business value is pushed very far down. The art and act of listening is pushed very far up. And this is salespeople answering this question, saying, when I listen, I am able to a much more greater extent, extreme substantial extent, convert prospects to customers. And so this is kinda what got me interested in talking more about this, and teaching this topic.

[bctt tweet=”Salespeople listed factors in order of priority in terms of impacting ability to convert prospects into customers. #1 Listening… #10 demonstrating ROI. 😲 Let that sink in. @dpriemer #SalesStragegy #ShutUpAndListen” username=”VanillaSoft”]

Darryl Praill: So then, I talk to a lot of sales professionals every single day. Nature of my job here at VanillaSoft. And many of them think they’re veterans, they’re skilled, they’ve learned from their past mistakes. And they don’t necessarily identify with having specific issues. So, let’s have some fun. Are there symptoms, are there warning signs, are there indicators that might suggest we’re not as effective listening as we could be?

David Priemer: Yeah, certainly. Well, I think one of biggest things, I’ve written a bunch of content on this as well, if you ever, and I’m, I ask you, Darryl, but also the folks listening today, have you ever gone out of discovery call, how, maybe you spent a half an hour, maybe an hour with the customer, maybe you were even in person. And you left the call and you looked at your notes and you went back to the office and you’re like, okay, I’m gonna start forecasting this and figuring out what to do next. And you look at your notes and you say, shit, I got nothing. Got nothing good. We-

Darryl Praill: I don’t know what you’re talking about. That’s never happened to me.

David Priemer: Yeah. We spoke for a long time. We were smiling. Like, oh my gosh. Can we redo that discover call again? And that’s probably one of the first symptoms is, you end up not leaving the call with what you wanted. And then secondly, one of the other symptoms is just discovery, stages of sale cycles that end up taking abnormally long. And so here’s what I, I actually did this analysis when I was at Salesforce. I did it at my last VP sales role as well. And I went into our CRM, and I took a look, and I said, “Show me the amount of time that we spend in the discovery phase of our sale cycle. So, however, you might have eight stages, five stages, whatever stages you classify as discovery, I want you to take a look at how much time, in days you spend or however long, in that discovery phase for deals that you win and deals that you lose.” Now of course with deals that you lose, you don’t get all the way through the sale cycle. But chances are, hopefully, you at least got through the discovery phase.

David Priemer: And what I found across via tons of data points, is that my teams spent three times longer losing deals than winning. Meaning they spent three times longer in the discovery phase of deals they ended up losing. And there are lots of reasons for that. I think one of the reasons that clients go dark on us, especially in the discovery phase, is that they don’t see us as someone who can help them, right? And only when they see us as someone who can help them, will they engage with us. And so if you’re looking at your sale cycles and you’re like, hey, you know, yeah, we’re losing a little more often than we’d like, and these losing sale cycles are actually extending far out beyond the sale cycles that we win in the discovery phase, that could be a huge symptom of not listening.

Darryl Praill: It’s funny because getting ready for today’s recording, I was actually a little self-conscious ’cause I knew the recording was on listening. And I, I may have a tendency to kinda jump into the conversation sometimes, because I get all excited. But I want you to know, David, I’m working really hard to listen to everything you are saying.

David Priemer: Thank you very much. I’m trying to do the same.

Darryl Praill: It’s hard, you get excited.

David Priemer: It’s hard, isn’t it, Darryl?

Darryl Praill: It is.

David Priemer: Isn’t it hard?

Darryl Praill: You get excited, right? So I’m almost thinking I should get my wife to listen to this session. Just saying. No, ’cause then she’ll want me to listen to her and that’s not gonna, that’s gonna work backwards on me, oh, that’s not good. All right, totally incorrect. And this is probably a good time to take a break so I can get back on course. Stay tuned, folks. We’ll be right back.

Darryl Praill: All right. So let’s talk about how we can be better listeners. And I think you got a few tips and tricks up your sleeve if, and again, remember guys, the whole goal here of Inside Inside Sales is to get into actionable things you can do to apply immediately, and make your life better, more successful and hit that quota every single time.

Darryl Praill: So talk to me. What are some of the tips and tricks we should be intentionally applying to be better listeners?

David Priemer: For sure. Well, so I’ll start with something very, very simple, which is, just shut up. Don’t speak, okay? Try to resist your urge to speak. And in fact, what I actually used to do, and look, we all need help with this. What I used to do and what I’ve seen a lot of people do, is put a little sticky note under their monitor or wherever they are by their phone that just says, “Listen.” Right? Just to keep it top of mind, because oftentimes we can just go off the rails and speak too much. There’s actually a lot of good technology that can, like these call analytics tools, which I’ve used at my other companies, where it will actually tell you what percentage of the time you are speaking versus your customer is speaking. And that’s a great way of creating awareness, because oftentimes we may not realize how much we are speaking relative to the other person. And there are some really great benchmarks out there that talk to this idea. So that’s kinda just number one.

David Priemer: The second thing is this idea, you’re talking about just eye contact. Now, obviously, we can’t always be in front of our customers having these discussions. And certainly when we’re doing on-site discovery, if we’re lucky enough to do that, everyone’s focused. We know we’re there. No one’s surfing the internet or doing something off to the side. But even when you are remote, one of the things I love to do, and I’m a huge proponent of video, is use video. And it was funny, I love using video for lots of reasons because it breaks down kind of the emotional barrier between you and your customer. Darryl, you’re driving in your car and some jerk cuts you off in traffic, and you start, I can, I don’t know, for whatever, we haven’t known each other for a long time, but I can picture you doing this for some reason. And you start behaving in a way that might be inconsistent with how you would behave in normal everyday society when the person cuts you off.

Darryl Praill: Has my wife been talking to you?

David Priemer: I figured. So, the reason that you behave that way is because one of the reasons, you don’t know who that other person is. If you knew who they were, if you knew of them, even if that you weren’t friends, they were someone who you saw. They cease to be a faceless person and started to be someone that you know, you would behave differently. And this is a huge tip just for anyone doing discovery. You will learn more things about your customers, and be able to listen better, when you do that discovery when you have that conversation over video. And there’s no excuse nowadays. There’s a million video conferencing tools.

[bctt tweet=”You will learn more things about your customers, and be able to listen better when you have that discovery conversation over #video. 📹 @dpriemer #SalesStrategy” username=”VanillaSoft”]

David Priemer: So keeping that eye contact is a, and showing the other person that you’re maintaining that eye contact, you’re nodding, the verbal cues, you’re saying “Mm-hm,” “Yes, tell me more,” is a great way, and in fact, it was funny. I oftentimes, now look, I always wanna make sure my clients are comfortable on video. So if I do a video discovery call and I’m booting up the zoom and I say, “Hey, can we get on video?” I actually had a client, who’s a great client, she said, she’s like “Oh, we got to be on video? Now I have to pay attention.” And that’s exactly what you want. It’s not just the fact that you wanna be a good listener. You want the other person to be listening to you. So that eye contact and nodding is a huge, huge way of making sure you’re listening.

Darryl Praill: I’m gonna interrupt you there, because you’re speaking to something that’s really, really powerful, right? How many of us are guilty of multitasking on calls? We have a call going on and we’re our email. We’re on LinkedIn. Or whatever. We’re multitasking. I’m guilty of it. And I had never thought of it until you said it just now. If I do put them on video, then they have to be as attentive to me as I am to them, which is exactly what I want in a sales discovery call.

David Priemer: Absolutely. Well, I’ll go one further. Even sometimes when you’re on a video call, I mean, you’re looking at your webcam, but the other person doesn’t see what you’re looking at, but they can tell if you start, you boot up the web browser in the background, you’re checking something, and if you’re not telling them you’re doing it. There’s lots of ways. “Hey, Darryl, I’m just looking for something here. Hold on a sec.” But if you’re just kinda doing it as happenstance, sometimes they can see in the reflection of your eyes, a picture behind you, your eyeballs. But they can certainly tell when you are unfocused, right? So just keep it locked. Keep it locked. And I’ll, it’s, yeah. You were gonna say something?

Darryl Praill: No, I was going to even say I’ll go one step further. And it’s a variation. Active listening is as much as active eye contact, ’cause sometimes we listen with our eyes, right? And I make a point, and maybe ’cause this is the marketer in me, that when I’m on a call with someone, like on a discovery call, for example, is that I’m staring at that webcam lens. Our natural inclination is to stare at the person on the screen. I don’t, I can hear them. I want them to know that I am looking at them. Any thoughts on that? Because I know if I do that, I may be missing out on some visual cues that their body language is conveying. Thoughts on that at all?

David Priemer: Yeah. I mean I always liked, it’s funny. So I notice that sometimes, depending on who you’re talking to, where the webcam is and so on, I like to look at the person. Certainly, as long as, I don’t know, or position the video close to your webcam-

Darryl Praill: Yes, that’s what I do.

David Priemer: So, yes. So you’re not looking off to the side. Yes, you –

Darryl Praill: And what I do is I’ll shrink the window so it’s smaller, so if their, if I have a 24- or 27-inch monitor and their head is full size, all you can see with the webcam is is their forehead. If I shrink it smaller, then I can actually see most of their head while still looking at the lens.

David Priemer: Totally. And this kinda goes back to that research from Salesforce that said that most, the most sellers, the number one thing they said they can do to improve their conversion rate is listen. One of the questions I asked in, and I think I mentioned this to you on LinkedIn, was, well why do you, I posted the chart, and I said, why do you think this is? And in my belief, it’s based on this premise that people, first and foremost, and there’s lots of research to support this, buy feelings. They don’t buy products, they don’t buy ROI. They buy feelings. And you know this whether you, the decision you made at the food court today, what you chose to eat for lunch, was based on a feeling of either indulgence or wanting to be healthy or something, right? We all buy things based on feelings. And so when you are focused and locked on someone in a conversation, you are doing good listening, active listening, they can feel that. And at the end of the day, when they buy the solution that you’re proposing, in a way they’re buying you. They are buying the experience-

[bctt tweet=”People, first and foremost, and there’s lots of research to support this, buy feelings. They don’t buy products, they don’t buy #ROI. They buy feelings. @dpriemer #SalesTips” username=”VanillaSoft”]

Darryl Praill: Totally buying you, because they trust you.

David Priemer: Yeah.

Darryl Praill: Yes.

David Priemer: They buy, they’re buying that experience. And that’s why when you don’t listen, they are also buying that. That’s when they don’t call you back.

Darryl Praill: Yup. Totally agree. All right. You, I interrupted. You’re on your third point. Number one, just to recap, was don’t talk.

David Priemer: Don’t speak.

Darryl Praill: Number one.

David Priemer: Shut up.

Darryl Praill: Shut up and listen. Number two was-

David Priemer: Yes.

Darryl Praill: … active eye in engagement, and somewhat body language. So you’re nodding. You’re conveying that you’re attentively listening. That was points one and two. What’s point number three?

David Priemer: Boom, yeah. Point number three is just writing things down. And I say, writing things down not only helps you remember the information later on, but it demonstrates to the customer that you are actually interested enough in their insights to memorialize them in writing. And even if you’re on the, if you’re on the phone, and I often take notes onthe computer. So when I’m on the webcam, they can sometimes hear the clickety-clack and that’s all good. Sometimes after they finished saying what they’re saying, and you’re still typing or writing something down, it’s actually, not only is it good to say, “Oh, I’m, that’s good. I’m just, give me one second. I’m just writing this down.” But especially if they can’t see you, it is a great way to reinforce the fact that you are writing that down. So that’s just, number one, just say, “Oh yeah, this is great. I’m just writing this down.” Super, super simple, and something you honestly should be doing anyways. That’s number three.

Darryl Praill: So did you write anything down yet on our conversation? ‘Cause we’re not on video call. So I don’t know if you’re active listening.

David Priemer: Yeah, you don’t what I’m doing.

Darryl Praill: You’re doing a lot of talking. I hear that. So, I don’t know, man. Just saying.

David Priemer: Well, so here’s-

Darryl Praill: Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

David Priemer: Yeah, no, go ahead. I was gonna say, we’re here-

Darryl Praill: I was just going to recap. Point number three is write things down. I was gonna, I was gonna push you along, dude. Get to point number four.

David Priemer: No, thank you. Well, point number four is well then how, is exactly what we’re talking about. Well, how did you know I wrote things down? And you write things down, you know how, that I wrote things down. You know I was listening when I recap, right? When I recap. And ideally, if I can recap using the exact same words that you used, it does two things. Number one, it proves that I wrote them, wrote it down. And sometimes you can say, and I, “Darryl, you mentioned at the beginning the call, and I quote,” and then I say that back. They’re like, oh my gosh. This is, you’re, this is great. He was listening.

David Priemer: But then also there’s a magic that happens when you use the exact same words as your customer. And there’s been tons of studies, I love, as you know the science of selling, there’s tons of studies that have been done on this, especially in-

Darryl Praill: You’re mirroring.

David Priemer: In the mirroring, yeah. In the hospitality industry, when waiters repeat their customers’ orders back to them verbatim, tips increase. Writing things down not only helps improve listening, because we are obviously actively transcribing what we’re hearing, but also using the exact same words back to our customer is that mirroring technique, which has been scientifically proven to improve affinity. So, recapping is a, with the exact same words, is a tremendously important tactic.


Darryl Praill: And what’s unique about that too, I mean just from a pure human dynamic psychology point of view, is that the act of writing things down, it’s gonna stick in your head. So, you going, as I recap, you made a point earlier about how many times have we done a discovery call, sat down afterwards and looked at our notes and said, what did we talk about? I don’t know. Whereas, not even writing things down, A, that solves that problem, but B, is the physical interaction of pen with paper, so to speak, that burns it in your psyche so that you can now leverage that. You know it. It’s instinctive. So that’s, you want to retain that.

Darryl Praill: All right. You have one more big-ass point you wanna make here, and what would that big-ass point be?

David Priemer: Well this is like a compound point, but the big-ass point is, just ask good follow-up questions. So, nothing shows that you’ve been listening than a really good follow-up question. And oftentimes, when you hear a bad discovery call, what is bad listening sounds like, what does it sound like, I’ll ask you a question and you’ll tell me the answer and I’ll say, “Awesome.” And then I’ll move on to the next question and you’ll tell me the next answer and I’ll say, “Cool, thanks.” And then I’ll move on to the next question. And this is the polite interrogation that customers hate. Hate, right? Nothing showcases the fact that I’m somehow moving down a checklist of items than this polite interrogation.

[bctt tweet=”Customers hate polite interrogations. It just showcases you’re moving down a 📋 checklist of items. @dpriemer #SellingTips” username=”VanillaSoft”]

David Priemer: So ask good follow-up questions, and it could be something as simple as “Hey, can you give me an example of that?” or “How long has that been going on?” But if you structure your questions correctly in the first place, they can very easily lend themselves to follow-up questions. So a simple example, I actually published a video on my YouTube channel today about this, I call them the One to Ten Question. So I might say, “So Darryl, we were chatting today about listening. Let me ask you a question. On a scale of one to 10, 10 being you’re the Doctor Phil of listening. You’re listening all the time. And one being there’s no room for listening ’cause you’re talking. Where would you say you fall on that scale?” Right? And whatever number you say is insanely interesting to me. “Oh, you’re a seven? Why do you say seven?” Right?

David Priemer: And so asking questions that naturally lend themselves to good follow-up is always a good discovery practice, but simply asking those good follow-up questions prove to the person that you weren’t just tuned out, that you are interested in hearing more about what they said. And certainly combining these with, “Oh, I was just, I was writing that down. So you said A, B and C. Can I ask you a follow-up question? What about this?” So you can kinda combine these things together and chain them together. But asking good follow-up questions, number five.

Darryl Praill: And what’s powerful about that, of course, is the whole idea of what you were just doing there, is you were asking open-ended questions as well. Sure you set the stage, what are your scale of one to ten, you’re like, oh, you’re a seven? Why are you a seven? That’s an open-ended question. It’s not a yes or no question. And that, and then shut up, going back full circle, to just listen, because when you shut up, they will share and share and share and share and share, which is really, really important.

Darryl Praill: The other part there though that’s really interesting, and we haven’t covered it, but I know it comes up with my conversations often with a lot of the sales professionals, is you have, when it comes to listening, you have to be comfortable that, at times, there will be an awkward silence as they ponder the answer or they’re not quite sure. And that’s okay. Let the silence simmer. They will come. They will fill it, which is really what you want as well, right? You want them to share that knowledge, ’cause that, after all, it is a discovery call. Or it is a negotiation, or you’re objection handling. Listening permeates the entire sales cycle. But be comfortable with silence. It’s all good.

Darryl Praill: All right. We are running out of time, and I’m sorry guys, because I have thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with David today. He’s engaging and he’s energetic. I think, you might actually be one of the most energetic guests I’ve had. You may be giving me a run for my money.

David Priemer: Well that’s high praise, I have to say.

Darryl Praill: I can never have you back again, because I don’t need the competition.

David Priemer: Right.

Darryl Praill: You’re with CerebralSelling.com, and for those of you who are spelling challenged because David didn’t pick a simple word, cerebral. C-E-R-E-B-R-A-L. Selling dot com. Now, and they can find you on LinkedIn too, right?

David Priemer: Yeah, absolutely. You can hit me up on LinkedIn, you can reach me through the website. I publish new content every week. I love, love, love sharing. In fact, I’ve been writing content, producing videos for a number of years now, pre-dating my business. In fact, I started Cerebral Selling simply, as a website, well during my last VP in sales role, simply because I had all this content but I didn’t have my own website. I was writing for Salesforce and all these other outlets. And so I just decided to pull it together. And you can check it all out there. There, it’s all free. I give everything away because I do believe that part of what our mission should be in the world of modern selling is to stamp out the undesirable element, the old-school sales tactics that cast a shadow on our profession that make people not like us, and make it harder for us to do our modern job of really, really helping people. So, I love to give everything away for free so that people can get better.

Darryl Praill: You’re just so damn articulate. I just wanna give you a hug, man. Wht’s so, it’s so crazy here, is that, for those, ’cause you guys don’t get to listen to what we talk about before we start the podcast. What I learned from David was, before we started, that this is his second podcast recording in the day. And what I learned on this call, because I was actively listening, is he also shot some videos and put them on YouTube this morning. This man is a content machine. So if your company is looking to supercharge your revenue growth, or perhaps develop your people better, or just refine the culture and you wanna do that through the principles of science, empathy, and just outright execution, then you should check out [email protected]. He’s on LinkedIn. You’ll, his name is a little funky. So it’s a D-P-R-I-E-M-E-R. That’s his LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com/ in slash, Dpriemer. You can check him out there. In the meantime, David, I had a lot of fun today. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I’m so grateful.

David Priemer: Me too, Darryl. Look, I have to say, you definitely win the most energetic podcast award from the ones I’ve been, I’ve been on some great podcasts with some awesome people. Don’t get me wrong. You are, you are definitely up there in terms of level of enthusiasm, which is awesome. I appreciate it.

Darryl Praill: You’re fun. Just so you know, for the record though, there’s no money in it, just so you know. But with that guys, that’s another episode. We’re done. We’re out of here. We are found at InsideInsideSales.com. Check us out. Share us, like us, subscribe to us. In the meantime guys, we wish you a wonderful day.