Which tactics do you employ during the discovery stage? Do you use a framework? Do you steamroll your prospects with a script? Are your ears trained to pick out the pain points or opportunities in their responses, and do you jump on them at the first opportunity? If so, you may be in danger of acting too quickly, and are jeopardizing your chances of closing the deal.

In this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl speaks with Randy Riemersma, the highly respected and expert sales trainer, who is also President of Span the Chasm. Darryl and Randy discuss the ways to use the discovery stage to your advantage. They also talk about how you can improve your chances of making the sale by keying in on the right hooks to target, as well as ways to avoid making mistakes that will end the discovery stage prematurely. This and much more, only on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!

Not in the mood to listen? No problem, you can read the transcriptions below.

Host:  Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: Randy Riemersma, Span the Chasm


Darryl Praill: How you doing everybody. Another episode of Inside Inside Sales. My name’s Darryl. What’s yours? You know, you guys got to reach out to me more often. And I have to be careful when I ask that, because you reach out to me a lot already, which I love. I get two kinds of feedback, typically. I get the, man, that session with that speaker on that topic killed it. Loved it. It was fantastic. I’ve already started using it. Thank you so much. Or I get the, hey, love the show. Wondering, can we talk about X? And today’s show is actually inspired by that, the latter. So I love getting those, but I want more. So don’t be shy. If you’re sitting there, go to LinkedIn, go to Twitter, ping me, give me your feedback, good, bad, or indifferent.

Darryl Praill: Because candidly, folks, this is our show. This is our time together, and I want to make the show everything you need it to be for you to be successful, and for it to be a fantastic use of your time, and so you’re not hitting that, I want to listen to this at 2X because I can’t listen to Praill for 30 minutes. I’ll listen to him for 15. Or I want to fast forward to the key stuff. I want this to be like dynamite time that we all just love working together.

Darryl Praill: Today’s conversation is interesting. I want to get into what the topic is shortly, but as I like to do, I like to kind of share some stories. Literally this morning, and I’m not making this up, you sales reps are out there are going to freak when tell you a little bit about this. I’m doing my thing, I’m Joe Marketer, and we have these people who are representing this trade show who think that we would be a fantastic addition to their event. And time is tight, deadline’s almost upon us, and they want to talk. You know, do we have an expression of interest? Which we did actually have an expression of interest.

Darryl Praill: So they’ve already had that initial sales qualification stage where this is our value prop, and yes, we’re in. And so now, boom, they’ve moved me to the classic AE role and now we’re going to have an appointment, and here we are jamming. First thing, this experience blows my mind. They’re like, so the meeting, just dial in, here’s the number. No pin required, it goes straight in. So my events person and I, we dial the number. Boom, we were right in. It was weird not having to dial a pin, but boom, we’re in. Life is good. We’re small talking with this woman. I don’t know who the woman is, I’m assuming she’s part of the crew. And finally she’s like, so who’s here? What are the names? And I’m like, I’m Daryl. And Nicole says, I’m Nicole. And all a sudden there’s this long pause. And she’s like, I think we have a mistake. You’re at a meeting you shouldn’t be at. And I’m looking at my calendar invite where it says the number.

Darryl Praill: So she disappears and she comes back, and she goes, yes, you’re here to talk to Tom or David, and they shouldn’t give you this number. We have a system to share this and they didn’t do it right, and you’re in my meeting and you’ve got to talk to them. I’m like, oh my goodness. I’m the prospect. So I said, you know what? I’ll just send them a Zoom link. So I send them a Zoom link. Boom, we get on.

Darryl Praill: And we’re talking about the show. I’m just in the basics. I’m going through, you know, what’s your show all about? And they’re sitting there saying, so what do you want to do? And I’m like, you guys came to us. Tell me about your show more. And well, you know, this is the show. And I’m like, okay. So I can see right away this is going nowhere. So I do what every good CMO does, I just take control. I got to take control. I go, okay, help me understand something. I said, I’ve got your prospectus in front of us, I understand the composition of the show, and I have some questions for you. I see that you’ve got how many people are there, and kind of a what size company breakout. That’s great. I need to know by industry, because there’s only certain industries I sell to.

Darryl Praill: Oh you know the show changes every year, and really, it’s hard to understand. It really changes. I’m like, well dude, let’s just use for example, let’s say I don’t sell to manufacturing, but a large percentage of your people are manufacturing. I have no interest in this show. I need to know. If I get there and it’s all manufacturing and that’s not who I sell to, waste of my time and money. Yeah, we can maybe get you some of those numbers. I say, okay, fine. I said, help me understand the roles, the titles, the roles. Yeah, we don’t really have that because it changes every year. And I’m like, dude, it’s a SAS show, and lots of startups and everything.

Darryl Praill: So I said, I don’t want to talk to developers, they don’t buy my products. Sales folks, marketing folks, senior level folks, that’s who I want to talk to. Yeah, we don’t really track that. I’m like, so you’ve got me here to sell me a show, and you can’t tell me the industry and you can’t tell me the roles. Well, we can send you a list of the titles from this this year past. I said, I’m not trying to buy your product with me doing all the work.

Darryl Praill: And this is how the conversation went, over and over again. At the end, I was screaming. I’m like, okay, so there’s this gold level sponsorship. And I said, your rep told us with that we get a speaking event. I said, is that the case? Well, it’s really late in the game. We don’t know if we can get that or not. Okay, I’m now, at this point, speechless. And then they’re like, well, you know, we can maybe squeeze you in. We have to rework the agenda. But how credible are you as a speaker? And do you do much of this?

Darryl Praill: Now for those of you who know me, I speak a lot. I’ve won a couple of recognitions over time. I speak a lot. And so what we got out of this was this person did no research into me, had no ability to represent what me as a CMO would be interested in knowing, and had no data to back up value prop. It was all upon me. And in this particular case, they were looking for a $30,000 investment.

Darryl Praill: So as you might imagine, that call didn’t go so well. What did they screw up? They screwed up discovery. Man, did they screw up discovery. Boy, did they screw up discovery. And I know you guys are nodding your heads right now. And that was actually, ironically, what this… One of our ongoing listeners asked, can you talk about discovery? Because me and my team, we struggle with this. We don’t stick to the framework. We go off track. We don’t do it right. And ironically, this individual, totally coincidental, also sells events. So how was that for a small world? So I said, we need to do to show on discovery. And I said, who is all about discovery?

Darryl Praill: And if you’ve been following LinkedIn at all and my conversations, you have seen me have a wonderful exchange with Randy Riemersma, and Randy’s with Span the Chasm. And he is the founder, he is a sales trainer, consultant, coach, teacher extraordinaire. He got my first attention when he did this just wicked video on just one small element of discovery, which is as soon as you hear something you like, don’t jump all over that person because now you want to share. So I said, dude, I’ve got to have you on. So since then, Randy and I have developed a fantastic friendship. We’ve connected with each other. We find out that we’re both approximately the same age with lots of the same hang ups and habits.

Darryl Praill: So, with that, it’s going to be a quirky call today. I’m looking forward to it. Randy, my friend. Welcome to the Inside Inside Sales Show.

Randy Riemersma: I simply cannot put into words how excited I am to be here today, Darryl.

Darryl Praill: I think you can. I think I’ve never seen you’ve lacking words. You are one skilled oratory expert. Is that a word, oratory expert? It seems to be a better word for that, and we’re going to make that up. So you heard my story. When I was sharing that, what was going through your mind?

Randy Riemersma: Just the tragicness of it. The avoidability of that. The shamefulness of it. I mean, there’s a thousand things. You wonder why salespeople have a bad rap? It’s because idiots like this young person, or this person, I don’t know how old they were, not taking the time to understand. And you and I talked a little bit before we got on the call, the importance of understanding who your ICP is. What they really do, what really hurts them, and how you can solve their problem. To put that amount of pressure on you to lead your own discovery process, decide if you’re going to make an investment or not? So avoidable. So tragic. So shameful.

Darryl Praill: And the funny part is I am on the hook. You know, I have a pain, if you will, to generate leads for VanillaSoft. Therefore, I saw this might be a good opportunity based on what I perceive, which is just surface, on their audience the people who would be attending. So I have self-identified already. If I hadn’t have self-identified, if this was just this individual trying to discover me right away, I would’ve bailed long ago.

Darryl Praill: I got off that call, and I actually called Nicole back, my events person. And I said, what the F? And she’s like, oh my gosh, that was like the worst call ever. They were so not prepared. And the worst part was, Randy, was that I was now meeting with the account exec plus the original SDR. So I had not just somebody who was junior, I had supposedly the more senior individual in that sales cycle. And that’s where we are. It was crazy.

Darryl Praill: So I’m not the only one going through this. There’s prospect after prospect going through this. There’s sales reps going through this and making the same mistakes. When it comes to discovery, let’s start with some basics, all right? There’s one school of thought that says the way to manage discovery is to have a script. There’s another school of thought that says the way to do discovery and have yourself some freedom is to have a framework. So what camp are you in? Are you pro frameworks or pro scripts?

Randy Riemersma: You like these pro/con, are you this or that. The Luigi Benjamin all over again. I love it. I am, in general, I’m a frameworks guy. Because I believe if you have taken your time, you’ve prepared, you have honed your skills, having your framework as a guide allows you to be much more situationally fluent. Whereas if you get stuck with this script, I’ve seen thousands and thousands of reps, they’re on their script, if they go off script at all, it just hits the fan in a big way. So I am, in general, a frameworks guy.

[bctt tweet=”I believe if you have taken your time, you’ve prepared, you have honed your skills, having your framework as a guide allows you to be much more situationally fluent. ~ @SpantheChasm #prospecting #SalesTips” username=”VanillaSoft”]

Randy Riemersma: I do believe in the first 10 or 15 seconds, I do want to have that pretty scripted so that I don’t screw that up. I don’t want that to be framed. I want to be able to say, my name is Randy Riemersma, I’m here for Span the Chasm for this reason, and give you a specific open-ended, engaging question just to get you to start paying attention. I do believe for a very brief moment in time, we need to have a script, but I find that in our coaching, companies that use frameworks do much better than companies that use scripts.

Darryl Praill: I actually though, I really like how you’re approaching this, which is a little bit of a hybrid. You’re mostly, you’re predominantly framework. But I love the fact that you do have that script, if you will, for the first 10, 20, 30 seconds, whatever it might be. [inaudible 00:11:13] rattle on before. I’ve talked to Chris [Spiel 00:00:11:14], I’ve talked to [inaudible 00:11:15] Dennehy, I’ve talked to many others, that first 30 seconds, I’m just generalizing, is so important to nail and to get it right, and fall into those the same mistakes. Like, hi, how are you? How are you feeling today? What’s the weather? By that point they’ve tuned out and moved on. So I love the script up front.

Darryl Praill: And one of the things we talked about was I shared a script, a framework, sorry, a script, a framework that I like to follow, and I shared this on on LinkedIn. For those who didn’t catch it, it’s a framework that I didn’t craft, did not craft, but it works for me. And it’s called SPICED. S-P-I-C-E-D. And what I like about SPICED is it just, to Randy’s point, it’s a framework that allows me to kind of progress through the whole conversation. I’m going to talk with Randy shortly about that whole progression, what you need to watch for and do and not do. But SPICED stands for what’s the situation? Figure out what the situation is. What pain are they in? What’s the impact that’s happened? So S-P-I. What’s the critical event that’s forthcoming that will force them to make a decision because they have to avoid that critical event, or have something done at that point in time? So S-P-I-C-E. And then what’s the decision making process?

Darryl Praill: So if on my discovery call I can use that framework to make sure, oh yeah, I got to ask the question about what’s the impact. I got to ask that question about what’s the pain? What’s the critical event? That kind of keeps me on track. But it lets me bob and weave and go around and have a wonderful conversation, build a little bit of a rapport, but it keeps me focused. Because I will get distracted. Now, do you have a framework you like to follow, Randy?

Randy Riemersma: Yeah, we do have a framework that we do. There’s a content partner of ours, ASLAN Training and Development, that we use here in Atlanta, and we’ve worked with them and a lot of their content. We try to keep it super simple. The five P’s. What’s the profile of the company? What’s the problem they’re dealing with? What’s preventing them from being successful? What’s the priority of this problem? And who are the persona or the personnel that need to be involved in solving this? So that we have a way of just to kind of frame it up.

Randy Riemersma: There’s a variety, whether it’s SPICED, whether it’s the five P’s, whether it’s whatever, I don’t think it matters. I love these conversations, because people will be like, you have to have this sales methodology. We’re a sales training company, let me go ahead and say this. I’m not a big fan of sales training because I find it often gets implemented poorly, it doesn’t get followed up, and people want to do things a certain way. But basically I’ll say, look, any sales methodology is going to be better than no sales methodology. So whether your SPIN, Challenger, Sandler, there’s a thousand things we can talk about, having a methodology matters. And the methodology, it has to work in your system, with your sales people, with your ICP, and it has to work in that environment.

Randy Riemersma: I don’t get all bent out of shape about which framework you’re going to use, whether it’s SPICED, or whether it’s the five P’s, or whether it’s whatever. Having something that’s going to keep you directionally correct, I think, is critical in a way that works for you and your team.

Darryl Praill: I love that. I’m in the same school or camp as as you are. It’s really meant as a, to use a bad analogy here, as a GPS. It just kind of keeps you going to the destination you want to get to and making sure you hit all the way stops along the way. Because that’s what you need to do in the discovery process.

Darryl Praill: I’m with you as well. If the framework doesn’t work, pick one that works for you, and that the target can connect with and relate to, and get you all the facts you need to be able to go and propose a solution. That’s all it matters. I agree with you. All right.

Randy Riemersma: Before you go on, you said the word facts. I also want to add in a word, and this may be crazy, I want to add it in the word emotions as well. I think we need to add emotion into the process as well, because if we’re going all fact, we’re on the rational side of our brain, people don’t start moving until they feel emotional pain. That’s where decisions really get made, and then they back it up with… How many times have we heard this? We make emotional decisions and back them up with intellectual alibis. So yes, we must get the facts. I believe we also need to enhance that we’ll get or groomed the emotions in the process as well.

Randy Riemersma: Now back to you, Darryl.

Darryl Praill: Now hold that thought. Hold that thought because I want to come back and pick up that emotional conversation. But we need to have a quick little break. So we shall be right back. Don’t go anywhere, folks.

Darryl Praill: I missed you, Randy. I just wants you to know that. It was really an emotional thing on me. But we’re back, man. Did you miss me during that little break?

Randy Riemersma: I did, and I had my roast beef and cheddar sandwich. It was delightful with the horseradish. Which now I’ve got spinach in my teeth. Am I okay?

Darryl Praill: Oh, man. You look fantastic. You’re genuinely incredible.

Randy Riemersma: As good as I can. I’ve got a face for radio.

Darryl Praill: As good as you can.

Randy Riemersma: Yeah.

Darryl Praill: You look way better than I do. That’s the annoying part.

Darryl Praill: All right, you mentioned emotion.

Randy Riemersma: Yep.

Darryl Praill: I love that. You know? So the framework is around getting to the destination, in gathering all this information, but there are different kinds of things you need to connect with. You need to connect with their emotion, which is often the pain that we talked about maybe in my SPICED concept. The pain hurts. It frustrates the living hell out of me. So there’s the emotion, but there’s also goals, and there’s numbers, and there’s politics.

Darryl Praill: Are there any tricks or techniques you can use to make sure that we are intentionally seeking all that information out?

Randy Riemersma: There’s a couple of things. So I want to capture this piece. Because we listen to a lot of calls with our clients, with SDRs and with AEs in the first part of the sales process. And you might be on a call, like the call that you were on the other day, I don’t know how long it lasts, but maybe you’re on a 20, 25 minute, 30 minute discovery call with someone. Let’s say it is 30 minutes. In that 30 minutes, there’s probably 25 minutes of BS, but there’s going to be a couple of moments that we need to dig into. And what I’m always listening to, I do my own prospecting. I’ve got to do my own pipeline build here at Span the Chasm.

Randy Riemersma: There’s discovery gold that we talked about a lot. There’s three things my radar is on high alert for. If I hear a number, if I hear a goal, or if I hear an emotion, I always know that that’s the time to stop and dig in and tell me more. The emotion might be, wow, that’d be the holy grail. Okay. They want something here very badly that would mean a lot. Talk to me about what that would mean. What does that look like if you’re able to achieve that?

Randy Riemersma: Or, man, this old system we got feels like it’s just an anchor around my neck. There’s a lot of emotion there. And it seems really obvious to dig into that, Daryl, but I hear a lot of reps that are like, oh wow, that must suck, and then they move on. Right? And they just missed that moment.

Randy Riemersma: Or a number. Here’s what I know. If you say 17%, I know that you want that number to either go up or go down. 17%. Operational expense as a percentage of revenue, I want that number to go down. Year over year revenue growth, I want that number to go up. But a lot of times reps don’t stop and calibrate around a number. If an executive that you are talking to says a number, stop the car, park for a minute, and dig in.

Randy Riemersma: And then the last one is goals. Hey, we are trying to… We are on a mission so that…

Randy Riemersma: Those three areas, and they seem obvious, and we talk about them on your podcast here, but a lot of people are just missing those magical moments. They come a couple of times in the call, and when they’re gone, they’re just tragically gone. So when you hear those things, numbers, emotions, or goals, stop, dig in, and find out what it means. What’s the why behind the statement?

Darryl Praill: So think about that, folks. Again, I’ll fall back just on the farmer that I know, SPICED. Using his example, oh, this is like an anchor around my neck. You know, that example Randy just gave you. I would immediately go into the I of SPICED and say, well, what impact is that having upon your operations? And then to Randy’s point, because they’re going to give you some numbers now at this point in time, you want to calibrate. Oh, it’s affecting your whatever, you’re new customer acquisition. Well, what should the new customer acquisition be? Did you have a goal that you’re trying to achieve, and you’re trying to get to X but your only at A? Are you this far behind? Wow. So how was that pain, now we’re on the P, being experienced in the operation because of this impact? Right? And oh, well, the cashflow is affected, and now we’re about to do some reductions in staff, and our competition is kicking ass and now we’re not.

Darryl Praill: And so just to Randy’s point there, use that framework and physically stop, and I love the word you said, calibrate. That is such a powerful, powerful word. It reminds me a little bit of the video you did make. And again, if you haven’t seen Randy’s video, check them out. Follow him on LinkedIn. He did a video, he was in a some fine urban center, and he was, I don’t know, getting out of his car or getting into his car. And he just stopped and he said, you know, when you’re on discovery call with somebody and they say we have this pain, this anchor around my neck, and you know that your solution can solve that pain. Too many reps just want to jump in and just go, blah, well let me tell you about my product and how we can fix it. And in fact, that is the antithesis of what you want to do, at least initially, in the discovery process.

Darryl Praill: So maybe talk a bit about that. Why did you share that? Did you experience that with a prospect? And what should people be doing instead of that? Because many people are going, but here’s a chance for me to connect. I can fix their problem.

Randy Riemersma: So okay, I want to stop on that. If I blurb, I can fix their problem, and then I’ll connect. You’re actually not connecting at that point. You connect when you dig into it and you and you ask them questions and you reflect back, and then they feel heard. That’s actually when you connect. All you were doing before was educating. Do you confuse education with a connection. I want to stop there on that one.

Randy Riemersma: Yeah, I remember the video that you’re referring to. Yeah, 90 seconds. Yeah, just a little 90 second clip. I was in Boston, I’d just gotten off a call with a senior sales leader that we work with. He was frustrated with reps that are, they’re diving into quickly. And we talk about avoid the pounce principle. You hear that first thing and you jump on it, and you start to educate, whatever.

Randy Riemersma: Here’s the problem with that. Number one, you stopped discovery. Right? Once you start to educate, you start to align, you really have cut off… I find there’s two times when discovery ends. The first time is when you cut them off and you start to pitch, the second time is when you start talking about what your price is. This is how much it’s going to be. Because now they focus on the price, and your opportunity to to harvest more value, or more opportunity to create more value, is basically gone. So let’s pay attention to those things.

Randy Riemersma: With regard to the pounce principle, here’s why I’m very, very cautious not to bite on the first lure. Because usually, this is my experience doing what we do at Span the Chasm, talking to VPs of sales that we talk to and the folks that we coach, the first thing that comes out of their mouth that we might solve is the most recent thing that they’ve dealt with, but it may not be the most important thing that they’ve dealt with.

[bctt tweet=”The first thing that comes out of their mouth that we might solve is the most recent thing that they’ve dealt with, but it may not be the most important thing that they’ve dealt with. ~ @SpantheChasm #prospecting #SalesTips” username=”VanillaSoft”]

Randy Riemersma: If I just smashed my thumb with a hammer, all I’m going to be able to talk about is how much my thumb hurts. But if I have something much more systemic problem with me, you’re going to sell me a box of bandaids, you might’ve been able to sell me something else much, much different. You know, maybe my cholesterol is out of whack, or my blood pressure is really high. But you sold me a bandaid for my thumb because that’s what I talked about. If you’d stayed in the conversation with me about my health conditions, I would’ve said, oh yeah, my cardiologist? On me like a pit bull on a pork chop because I can’t get my cholesterol down because I eat 37 pounds of shrimp every week or whatever.

Randy Riemersma: So when we pounce on that first thing, we usually get the most recent thing, but not the most important thing.

Darryl Praill: Pit bull on a pork chop. That is a wonderful visual. I appreciate that.

Randy Riemersma: Everybody stop right now. Okay. That’s every SDR that I’ve seen in the last month.

Darryl Praill: It is. It totally is.

Randy Riemersma: Right?

Darryl Praill: You’ve talked a little bit about the role of listening, and you contrast that with the whole concept of steamrolling.

Randy Riemersma: Yeah. And this is probably where it gets my dander up around the scripts. Because a script has a start and it has an ending. And by golly, as an SDR, BDR, ISR, whatever your company calls them, I’m going to get to the end of my script. And so I just go through the whole script, sometimes I’m going through my script without even having gotten permission. I always find that amusing. I get a lot of calls from lead gen companies, and someone will like, hey, how you doing? All right, you’ve indicated this is a cold call. Thank you. They say some value prop, and then they just go into their pitch without even asking me if I’m interested or if it’s okay to ask me a few questions. They just go into their pitch.

Randy Riemersma: So one thing I find interesting is, just a comment, don’t go into discovery until you have permission. Because they’re not engaged yet. Until someone gives you permission to start asking, they’re not really listening. And I know, I still am a victim, I still do stupid stuff. I’ll be sometimes like 90 seconds into a discovery call and I’m like, hold it, they’re not with me yet. I never got permission. They’re out right now, they’re updating their CRM right now with whatever from their last call. Got to have that permission.

Randy Riemersma: And the steamrolling. If I’m going to start at the upper upper left of my script, I’m going to go to the lower right, and I’m just going to go through that. Number one, I’m going to miss all those wonderful opportunities where they give me that discovery goal, that emotion, that goal, that number. And a lot of times we’ve got to just slow down a little bit and dig in. Because it’s like that sort of third or fourth clarifying question where we start to get that aha, exactly, moment where, oh Daryl, aha, I get your problem! Because I’ve dug in with clarifying questions, I get your problem. It sounds like this, right? And then you go, Randy, exactly.

Randy Riemersma: And here’s what I know about my brain. When you get someone to lean in and say, exactly, there’s literally a dopamine release in the pleasure center of their brain, and the next thing that you say will be perceived as truth. You got it. You understand my problem. Exactly. Then they say something crazy like this, Randy, how would you solve that? And what you say is you get the chance to throw up all that wonderful product stuff you have. But you got to stay in there. Don’t steamroll them. Don’t try to get to the end of your script. Try to get to the meat of their pain, not the end of your script.

Darryl Praill: Now you have said one thing, we’ll make this our final talking point, we’re getting tight on time here. You can do all of this, and I’ll let you finish this sentence, nothing happens until we make…

Randy Riemersma: The current state unacceptable. Bam.

Darryl Praill: Bam. Did we just do bam together at the same time?

Randy Riemersma: Simul-bam.

Darryl Praill: Oh man, simul-bam. How do we do that? I mean, that’s been the whole conversation we’ve had today, I understand. But I think what I love about what that statement says is we have to remove status quo as an option.

Randy Riemersma: We have to remove status quo as an option. For those of you on video, this should be easy. For those of you that are listening to us while you’re at the gym, you’ll have to imagine this. I’m drawing a little band here in the air. This band is where we spend 80% of our time. Emotional time. And in this band, you know, my team lost, my team won, I came to work, my boss is still an idiot, blah, blah, blah. It’s our life is in this sort of 80% band. And the decisions we make in this band are, hey Daryl, where do you want to go for lunch? Do you want to watch Netflix tonight or do you want to do something on Hulu? We make these sort of life decisions in here.

Randy Riemersma: Current state unacceptable. We must take them out of that emotional state and get them below that line. Through experiencing some actual like DNA fear, paranoia, we’ve got to make the current state unacceptable. And usually if you don’t already know about it, I need to be able to have a point of view that’s going to lead you to that that’s going to expose that. And we’ve got to pick at that scab, and we’ve got to pour in a little bit of onion juice, we’ve got to grind and a little salt, and a little bit of dirt just for fun, and grind that in to make the current state unacceptable. Because I firmly believe nothing happens until someone believes that their current…

Randy Riemersma: Everybody’s busy, right? Your the CMO of VanillaSoft, you got a lot of stuff to do. If you are not taken outside of that emotional band, you’re going to be too busy to deal with it. And we want to educate versus instill emotion. We talked about emotion early on. Ration educates, emotion motivates. Just because you’ve educated someone doesn’t mean they’re moving.

Randy Riemersma: You’ve got seven seconds left.

Darryl Praill: I know. Randy, if they want to follow you, connect with you, best way to do that?

Randy Riemersma: Company is spanthechasm, it’s spelled right here, .com. Send me an email, [email protected]. Send our team an email, info@. Web, you can find us LinkedIn. Last name is Riemersma. It’s spelled phonetically, if you’re Dutch.

Darryl Praill: Folks, did I not nail this one? Randy is a rock star when it comes to this. Randy, thank you so much for your time today.

Darryl Praill: We are all out of time, though. However, that’s in another episode in the bag, as they say. If you haven’t, do me a favor, go out and a rate, review, share the podcast. The growth is fantastic, but we want more. We want to reach more people and bring people like Randy to them all over again. Because sales is a profession that we have to continually get better at together.

Darryl Praill: My name is Darryl Praill. I am your host of Inside Inside Sales. I’ve had fun today. I hope you’ve had too. I talked… I showed… Oh my gosh, I mumbled that one up, didn’t I? Folks, I had a good closing going and I blew it, but we’re going to do it again next week. Take care. Bye bye.