Do you use a script when you are cold-calling? Is it a cold, unfeeling template, or is it personalized so that you can connect with your prospects on a human level? If you’re not getting conversions or responses, perhaps you’re missing the human element. You may know your script, but do you know how to really connect?

In this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl speaks with Julia Shapiro, the Rockstar Director of Sales at Oktopost. Darryl and Julia talk about ways to connect to your prospects on a more human level. They also share effective tips such as researching to find a common bond, simply staying in touch, and recognizing events your prospects experience. It’s all right here on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!


Not in the mood to listen? No problem, you can read the transcriptions below.

Host:  Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: Julia Shapiro, Oktopost


Darryl Praill: Good evening, good afternoon, folks! How ya doin’? It’s Darryl again, here for another episode of Inside, Inside Sales. You know, it’s funny. I’ve got to share a story with you folks. Literally this morning, I was driving in and I was listening to an episode of the Inside, Inside Sales show and doesn’t that just sound so vain? I gotta agree, it does sound vain. But, I do it because, you know, when I’m in the middle of the conversation with my guests, it’s like I’m in the conversation, you know? I’m not necessarily taking notes, I’m not trying to, you know, what I’m doing, I’m not trying to learn from them, I’m just connecting, connecting, like a human does, you know? We have social interactions and the problem is when it’s all said and done, I go, “oh, man, that was an incredible episode, “I just love that individual. “They were so on their game “and I just thought they were a kindred spirit, incredible.” And then I sit back and I go, “what did we talk about?” Because we talk about a lot!

Darryl Praill: You ever have those conversations where you’re just so connected and you’re like finishing each other’s sentences and when it’s all said and done you just go like, man, that felt great, but I know, and then your spouse or your significant other says, “so, what’d you guys talk about?” And you go, “I don’t know, I don’t know.” My spouse hates that. She’ll say, so, what’d you do today? Oh, I had a podcast recording and what’d you talked about, oh, we talked about this, some high level answer, right? We talked about the act of discovery. Oh, yeah, and what’d you talk about? You know, I don’t know, I don’t know, and then she yells at me with love and affection saying you know, you suck to have a conversation with because I’m not opening up. You know, what she really wants out of me is kind of that human element, right?

Darryl Praill: The ability to connect with me and really get down into the nitty gritty. Which is interesting, because sales is no different. I was cold called many months ago, but still in this year, and it was a sales rep who, out of the blue, said, “Darryl, you know, I follow you on LinkedIn, “I love your content. “You’ve helped me out, “and I really think I can help you out now.” So, right away he establishes kind of like this reciprocal thing, right? You’ve helped me out, now I want to return the favor and help you out. And I’m like, I’m intrigued. I’ve helped him out and he wants to help me out. How are you gonna help me out, dude, let’s talk.

Darryl Praill: And we go and we have this conversation and at the end we actually did a deal. It was a small pilot deal that we did and that was pretty cool. And then he comes back to me like a month later and he says I need your help again and I’m like, you know, what? Now, realize, I haven’t talked to him since we signed the deal, and it was just a small deal. And he says, you know, I’m doing all of this business development and it’s not working and I’m not getting conversions, I’m not getting responses. And he goes, I just don’t know what to do.

Darryl Praill: And I’m like, you’re coming to me? He goes, yeah! And I’m like, well, what do you want from me? Can you review my stuff, can you review my scripts, can you review everything else? So, I said sure. So he sends to me his stuff and I’m looking through his email templates and I’m looking through his phone scripts and, you know, as much as I do sales, I like to think I have some skills. You know, my full-time job is a marketing executive, so any feedback I give back to anybody I always kind of quantify that when you say this is just an input, you know?

Darryl Praill: You should check it with other people just to make sure we’re all on the same page. But of what I can tell you is this, you know. I received this email, I received this phone call. You know, I would delete it. You know, when you reached out to me, I don’t know if it was just an accident because you were following me online and you felt like we had a connection, you felt like we had a bond, but you treated me as a person. You treated me as a trusted advisor, you treated me as someone you respected and it came across in the sincerity of your outreach. And that’s what I gravitated towards.

Darryl Praill: So, I said, you know, you gotta add more of that to your outreach, to your emails and your phone calls and your texts and your social touches. You gotta connect with the world they’re in and the pain they’re going through and how they live their life and the challenges they’re having. You gotta understand where they’re at. You gotta connect to them like you did with me, human to human. You see but, what I’m trying to tell you guys is that a lot of you know what to do mechanically. You know the rhythm, you know the cadence, you know the bus routes, you know the format, you know the scripts, but you’re not connecting one on one, human to human.

Darryl Praill: So, I say to myself, “self, we need to do a show “about the human element.” So you look around, you say, well, you know there’s a lot of really smart people on that and where do I go? So then I got to thinking, who do I know who lives in the social media world? Because social media is all another way of connecting one on one if it’s done right, and then I thought about Julia Shapiro. If you’ve not met Julia, she’s the director of sales at Oktopost. Now Oktopost is like, I don’t know, I can’t say enough good things about them. They’re like the kick-ass version of whatever you would want for the enterprise to manage your social media and your employee advocacy.

Darryl Praill: Now, I’m probably messing that up and Julia is gonna correct me, as she should, ’cause I don’t wanna mess up her messaging and her positioning statement. But the whole point here is that’s what they do for a living. So I’ve got an individual who carries a bag, who has a quota, lives this every day, but gets to watch what you folks do on social and everywhere else gets to see how to do it right. And I’ve invited her to join us today to talk about the human element. Julia, welcome to the show!

Julia Shapiro: Darryl, thank you for having me. You killed it on that interaction, I loved it.

Darryl Praill: Did I do good? How did I do on the company messaging? So, you know, ’cause I butcher this stuff on a regular basis.

Julia Shapiro: I think you did all right. I think you did great.

Darryl Praill: She is being polite, look at that. She is, “you did all right, you didn’t suck, that’s good.” Now, Julia, when we started talking about this and getting ready for the human element, I know this is something that was really passionate for you and often, folks, you might not be aware of this, but when I’m talking to my guests, I’ll often say, you know, what about this topic really resonates at you and you know, when we have this conversation, Julia lit up and she got passionate and she started talking faster. So this is, I know this is important to you. So why is this so important to you? Why does this, I guess jump out for you?

Julia Shapiro: I think because in our industry most everything is online. Right, so naturally we already remove that face to face human element. And I think especially if you’re talking about SDRs, or even inside sales, right? They often time go on autopilot. And it’s so boring. I’m gonna say it, right? You get in this routine, you go into the office or work from home and you just blast out a bunch of emails and as you’re doing it, you’re probably not even thinking about what you’re doing, you’re just kind of on autopilot and I think once you take that away and make it fun and reach out to somebody as if you’re reaching out to your friend or your family or somebody that you might know, it gets more exciting and that’s what I started doing and I don’t know, it made it more fun and you’re also gonna get more success, in my opinion.

Darryl Praill: So let’s talk about that, ’cause your whole autopilot thing, it hits home for me. You know, I know I’m guilty of this. I get into a routine and it’s like, I gotta get this done. You know, I got my checklist of things to do. My daily task, my weekly task, gotta get it done, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. For a sales development rep, you know, I gotta do 50 calls a day, gotta do 100 calls a day, gotta do my emails, gotta do my social touches, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.

Darryl Praill: I’m just sending them so I can say to my boss I hit my activity numbers, and you’re right. You know, for example, I get too many emails where they haven’t taken time to personalize it. Like for example, it’d be like, “Dear, bracket, name, bracket, “I think we have a lot in common with “bracket, company name, bracket, yada, yada, yada.” In other words, they didn’t catch it, they’re not paying attention, they’re just going through the notes. And or I get these ones. “Looking that we’re both in the educational industry, “we thought we would connect.” Well, I’m not in the educational industry, I’m in the hi-tech industry. Thank you for taking time out to research me.

Darryl Praill: So, you know, it’s like they’re just going through the motions. And I am curious, if you are listening, if you’re smiling right now or feeling a little sheepish, you know you too are going through the motions, and that’s okay, we’re not judging. This is a judgment-free zone. Give me some examples of things we might do without even thinking about it. I mentioned a couple, but, you know, what do you see happen?

Julia Shapiro: Listen, I think your first point of that mindset, I need to get this done. I need to blast out 50 emails so my boss knows that I did my work for the day and if you change that mindset, I swear it’s gonna make your life better, it’s gonna make your job better, it’s gonna make your closed ratio better if you just take that away and think, huh, how can I make this exciting? Because I guarantee whoever you’re reaching out to is being reached out to 50 other people that day and I always, I’ve trained a lot of SDRs in the past and I always like to, and this is gonna sound really crazy and wild, but I always like to kind of compare prospecting or any type of outreach on social to dating, right?

Julia Shapiro: When you go on your first date, or let’s say you ask somebody on a first date, are you gonna draft up this huge format? And on your first date are you gonna talk about anything and everything and make it all about you? Like, you’re just not. Right? So why is that any different when you’re prospecting? You want to kind of make it short and sweet. Leave them kind of curious afterwards and take that first caller, that first outreach to really just figure out if there’s a fit. If there’s not, don’t waste your time, same with dating. If you don’t like that first date, don’t go on a second one, unless you’re really desperate or whatever your situation may be. But, you know, I think that that’s first and foremost is to make it fun.

[bctt tweet=”On your first date 👩❤️👨 are you gonna talk about anything and everything and make it all about you? Like, you’re just not. Right? So why is that any different when you’re #prospecting? ~ @juliarshapiro #SalesTips ” username=”VanillaSoft “]

Darryl Praill: You know, you say a couple of things. I love the date analogy, and it’s making me laugh for a couple of reasons. Somehow I want to insert some kind of sweep left analogy here on this discussion but I can’t figure one out, so we’re gonna just drop it and move on.

Julia Shapiro: No, it’s the autopilot thing, you know?

Darryl Praill: It is the autopilot thing, right? And how many times are you, not that I know this, ’cause I’ve been married for a few years, but if you’re looking at the app and you sweep left, left, left, whoa, I didn’t want to go left on that one and it’s gone!

Julia Shapiro: You’re just getting it done.

Darryl Praill: Yeah, it’s gone. So, the thing about dating, which is so true, it’s a great metaphor for what we do, is a couple. One, if you’re gonna go on a date with somebody, tell me, do you not go Google their name or check out that individual before you ever go meet them to see if they’re a stalker?

Julia Shapiro: You do a little research!

Darryl Praill: You do some research!

Julia Shapiro: I’m a girl, I turn into an FBI agent, right?

Darryl Praill: Yes!

Julia Shapiro: I haven’t dated in a very long time, but when I was in there, you know, you do your research. Why is it any different from a prospect?

Darryl Praill: Special Agent Shapiro, you got it. So you do the research, right? And the second part of the research though, beyond seeing if they’re gonna be a stalker or if they have any outstanding warrants upon them–

Julia Shapiro: Background check.

Darryl Praill: Exactly! The background check. It’s, you know, what are they about? What are their interests? What’s their background, what’s their experiences, what’s their life, what’s their work? ‘Cause some of that is gonna jump out at you and some of it’s going to actually connect with you. Like, you know, if it was a date and I saw that, I’m making this up, you know, I’m Canadian, oh, they’re Canadian, oh look, we’re both Canadian, isn’t that interesting? So let’s talk about, you know, do you know Susie from Halifax? So, you know, that kind of conversation, you have that common bond, which is what I’m thinking you’re alluding to when you talk about, you know, not going on autopilot, taking time out to establish a connection. In your case, I believe it sounds like you’re saying do a little research.

Julia Shapiro: Do a little research, make it fun. Right, when you are doing that research and you realize that you and Susie grew up in the same hometown, on your first caller, when you call this Susie, you’re like, oh, by the way, like, we got Starbucks still around or is that restaurant still around?

Darryl Praill: Exactly.

Julia Shapiro: Make it fun. Nobody wants to read a templated email. And you know what? The crazy thing, and I can’t wrap my head around this: my target audience is marketers. What do marketers do for a living, right?

Darryl Praill: They market.

Julia Shapiro: They market.

Darryl Praill: So they get it.

Julia Shapiro: They’re the ones on the backend drafting up this content and these templated emails and they do it to, I mean, a lot of companies do the whole spray and pray method. So if you’re taking that same piece of content that your marketing team has drafted up for you and then you’re sending it to a marketer that’s doing that same thing, that’s just so lazy.

Darryl Praill: It is, I agree.

Julia Shapiro: Knock it off!

Darryl Praill: Yeah, another part is, you know, I hear this often said from sales reps is that, you know, the way marketing speaks is not the way I would speak.

Julia Shapiro: Exactly.

Darryl Praill: Okay, so, speak the way you would speak, you know? Maybe marketing doesn’t give you the perfect messaging, make it your own, but connect with them. You know, research them, understand what makes them tick, understand what commonalities you have, where your pasts have crossed before, and use that to start to establish rapport. Not unlike the individual whom I was alluding to when we started the podcast, that you know, he used the connection of you know, your content has really helped me out. I’ve applied some of the lessons learned and I want to return the favor now, you know, we established a bond, you know, a connection.

Darryl Praill: And that was the framework for going from there. So that was really cool. One of the pieces of advice I gave my son, my son is in his early 20s and he’s getting serious with a young lady and not too long ago, he got to meet the mom for the first time and he was starting to panic a bit with me saying, you know, I don’t wanna blow this, ’cause I really like this woman and I want to make sure I connect with her mother. What do I do? And my advice to him is just not unlike what sales reps should be doing, was just ask a lot of questions.

Darryl Praill: I said, it’s not about you, it’s not about you talking, it’s not about you feeling that dead air. It’s about you asking questions. So what do you do for a living? You know, in this case, it’s a relational thing. What do you do for a living? What’s that like? What are the hours like? How did you get there? What’s your education? You know, what’s the biggest challenge? You know, if you could change jobs, what would it be? You know, how’s it been with your daughter?

Darryl Praill: She moved away from home. Whatever it might be, just ask, ask, ask, ask, ask and the individual will relax because when they’re talking about stuff that’s near and dear to them, they start to relax because they feel that A, they have control. They feel like it’s a topic they know, so they’re not awkward, and they feel like you have an interest in them, so they want to bond more with you. So, you know, that whole idea, building the rapport, adding a human element, I love it.

Julia Shapiro: Yeah, and Darryl, you make a good point about that. It’s the same within any type of outreach. What’s in it for them? And I sound like a broken record saying that because every sales 101 newsletter, anything you’re gonna read is always gonna say something like that. But really, again, take the time to listen back. If you wouldn’t respond, don’t send it.

Darryl Praill: So what does that mean? Does that mean, you know, if I’m gonna write an email or I’m gonna leave a voicemail, are you suggesting what?

Julia Shapiro: Absolutely, before sending out that email, really take the time to read it back to yourself and think about where a lot of people are checking their emails, it’s on their phone. If it’s longer than, you know, a couple sentences, are you gonna read it and think about yourself. If you got this email, would you read it? And if you have any feeling that the answer is no, then don’t send it, and it’s okay to take a little bit more time to really figure out what that perfect email is. Make it to the point, short, sweet and to the point. And even send it, I mean, send it to somebody on your marketing team or send it to somebody, one of your coworkers and say hey, if I sent you this, would you respond?

Darryl Praill: You said two important things so far: you said what’s in it for them and then you said, how would I respond?

Julia Shapiro: Right.

Darryl Praill: That’s huge, because, that’s the best part, right? ‘Cause you know, we sell to marketers and to salespeople so I get your pain about selling to marketers, and there’s a different value prop when I sell to a marketer versus when I sale to a sales leader. And it’s always how would I respond if I got that? Would I blow this off, would I delete it or not? And so often when I get this stuff, and I tell you, guys, when I get your emails, sometimes I’m like, what’s going through their mind? They couldn’t, they don’t have a clue who I am because their opening line is about them.

Julia Shapiro: Right, nobody cares who you are.

Darryl Praill: Nobody cares, nobody cares.

Julia Shapiro: And I think also, I mean, often in times, you’re not gonna get a response for that first email. Right, sometimes, maybe. How are you gonna respond to that? I’m personally kind of feisty, and again, taking it back to the human element. If somebody doesn’t call me back, I’m gonna call them out on it. Or if somebody doesn’t email me back, I’m gonna call them out and say Darryl, what the heck? Did you ghost me? You know, and I think that taking away that templated format, again, “Hi, Darryl, I see that you opened up my email “but I wanted to know “if you had a chance to read through it?” No, no, he didn’t, and he’s not going to. Or instead it’s like, “yo, Darryl, like, what’s up?” Why aren’t you responding?

Darryl Praill: Bam, right there! What she said, “Yo, Darryl, what’s up?” That would get my attention every time.

Julia Shapiro: Maybe not that part, but come on.

Darryl Praill: It would! And right away, I’d start giggling. I’m like, I gotta get to know this Julia, because she’s fun, she speaks my language. So, let’s carry on. So we talked a little bit about what’s in it for them, how would I respond, do some research, look for some commonalities that you can connect with. “Hey Susie, how’s Halifax doing, how’s the weather?” Whatever it might be. But then, you know, are there other ways that we can be memorable? Because you’re right, you know, I get lots of emails and lots of phone calls. Are there other ways that I can get in front of them to stand out and build that relationship?

Julia Shapiro: I mean, we can talk a lot and this is more gear towards the enterprise sales cycle. One thing that I learned when I was an SDR, and this is something that you have to kind of tread lightly with is what’s called the champion email. You ready for this?

Darryl Praill: I’m ready.

Julia Shapiro: Okay, so let’s say your stuck pulling the line, right? And you have this point of contact that you’re working with and they’re great and they’re kind of acting all mighty. I know we’ve all worked with those people that they have the deciding power, they’re the decision maker, but when push comes to shove, they’re not, right, and what I always like to do is I, from the get-go, reach higher up, do that right away.

Julia Shapiro: And that way, it’s gonna do a couple of things. It’s going to let you know if you actually have a deal or if you actually have something in motion and it’s also gonna get the awareness of that person that you really need to be focused on. But I don’t do it in a way where I’m reaching out to the CMO and I’m saying, hey, we should also book a meeting because I want to get you involved, rather Darryl, if you’re the marketing coordinator, right, and I’m reaching out to your CMO and I’m saying, hey, wanted to drop you a quick note, I’ve been working with Darryl, he’s fantastic, I can see he sets the bar high at your organization.

Julia Shapiro: This is what we’ve been talking about and let that marinade. You’re not asking for anything, but that way Darryl comes back into the office on Monday morning, and his CMO comes up to him and says, “You’re awesome, I just had Julia at Oktopost email me “saying how great you are and blah-blah-blah, “by the way, what’s Oktopost?” And so we were gonna see, right, do you have a deal or is this something that you’re kind of wasting your time with? In the worst, you know, it’s a bust and Darryl gets pissed off at you for emailing his CMO, but regardless, it’s all about that time and getting the right people involved, so I think that’s really important.

Darryl Praill: But see, even then, I wouldn’t get too upset with you for emailing my CMO in that example, because you just said nice things about me so I’m like bummed that there’s more aware and more involved but I’m not gonna say anything bad because you just said nice things and helped my profile. So, you’ve offset that. Now, let me spin around what you just talked about from me, as the CMO, all right?

Darryl Praill: So me as the CMO, like it’s VanillaSoft, when I bring my leads to my Julia in my company and I say, there you go, and, you know, my Julia of my company comes back and says those leads all suck, my response is as follows, and this is important for you sales representatives to know, this is how we marketers who make the MQLs think. My response is, well, did you reach out to anybody else in the company?

Darryl Praill: Just because, you know, I gave you Susie, and Susie downloaded a paper on how to improve your sales processes and Susie has no budget, no authority, no nothing, Susie is not gonna be able to help us with the deal here at all. Susie’s action suggests that there’s a need at the organization. So even though the lead I brought you, on their face value, is not good, did you go up the food chain? Did you reach out to multiple stakeholders? Because chances are, there will be a lead there. And if your response in sales is, “no,” then my response in marketing is go back and do it again.

Julia Shapiro: And piggybacking off of that, we all know that, especially in marketing, people are constantly switching roles, switching companies, this goes for any industry, right? And I have had so much success, Darryl, of just staying in touch with customers with prospects, following where they’re going, what they’re doing on LinkedIn. Are they switching companies? Did they get a promotion and reaching out.

[bctt tweet=”I have had so much success just staying in touch with customers & prospects, following where they’re going, what they’re doing on LinkedIn. Are they switching companies? Did they get a promotion and reaching out. ~ @juliarshapiro #SalesTips” username=”VanillaSoft”]

Julia Shapiro: Right, and if you do those simple, little things of even just keeping a list of your favorite customers or your favorite prospects, those people that you’ve really just connected with, that you liked working with or that gave you the time of day, and you see they’ve switched and went to a new company, reach out, congratulate them on their new role and say, hey, by the way, I know I sold to you at your last company, is there a need at this one? Maybe don’t do it on their first day. Let them get settled into their role a little bit, but I can’t tell you how many sales reps that I know don’t do that. And it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Darryl Praill: It blows me away. I can’t tell you. What’s been interesting how things have changed is, you know, I had a birthday couple months ago, no big deal, but for the first time ever–

Julia Shapiro: Happy birthday.

Darryl Praill: Thank you very much. For the first time ever, I was overwhelmed by birthday wishes on LinkedIn, which I found rather interesting. That had never happened to me before. Sure, you get on Facebook, friends and family, but LinkedIn was a quish! But, that’s cool, I appreciate that. But now, let’s put the filter on. Of those people who sent me birthday wishes, because in their timeline it said, hey, it’s Darryl Praill’s birthday, so you can’t forget, right?

Darryl Praill: How many of that pool of people then, you know, when I had a major product release or when I announced a big thing, like, this week, we announced that we’re gonna be the title sponsor of the OutBound Conference, right, so I’m with, you know, Victor Antonio, Anthony Iannarino, you know, Mark Hunter, Jeb Blount. I mean, these are the who’s who in the be to be world for hanging out with. This is a coo for VanillaSoft. I got a much smaller list of people who reached out, but those people, every single one of them who did, they are on my short list and if I need their services now, that’s someone I would do, just because they were savvy enough to stay in touch and say, attaboy, way to go, you’re doing good, man, I’m watching you. Sounds stupid, but that’s exactly what you’re saying.

Julia Shapiro: It’s the little things that takes you two seconds, just do it, it’s going to pay off, promise.

Darryl Praill: What are your thoughts on direct mail or thank you notes or any of that kind of stuff? ‘Cause we’re talking about the human touch here, so, you know, I was taught as a kid to send a thank you note, but is that passé? You tell me.

Julia Shapiro: I think it’s so funny that you bring that up. One of the SDRs that works in our Atlanta office and I kind of did this test pilot. And reaching out cold is one thing, right, and going back to our point, even if you make it by human element, it’s really difficult to get a response nowadays. And one thing that we tried doing is sending letters and don’t ask me my success on that because it’s something we just started doing, but I think it’s so crucial and I think it’s so important to just get creative and think outside the box. Would you be blown away if you got a handwritten letter, Darryl?

Darryl Praill: I’d be a bit cynical. I’d be like, okay, did she really write it herself or is this some offshore company doing it? But I would be intrigued and you would stand out because of that.

Julia Shapiro: And you get that attention. And I think whether you’re writing a handwritten later, direct mail, or whatever you’re doing, right, I think it’s so important to always, always, always say thank you, and that’s one thing that our CEO kind of ingrains in us from day one is after every meeting, whether it’s an SDR scheduling a meeting, whether it’s an AE finishing their first meeting, email or LinkedIn every single person that attended that meeting, even if it’s 15 people, and individually write them a letter on, let’s say LinkedIn, or email them, however you wanna do it.

Julia Shapiro: I personally, obviously working for a social media management company, I always go the LinkedIn route, I think it’s a little bit more personal. I always just shoot them a quick email. Hey, by the way, thanks so much for your time today, it was awesome speaking with you. That’s it.

Darryl Praill: So let’s recap. The whole story is about the human element. That’s what we’re here about today, folks. The human element is getting lost in the sales process, it’s gotta come back. When you use the human element, you’re far more successful, Julia has talked to us about a lot of things today. She has reminded us we always have to be thinking about what’s in it for them. I love this one, how would I respond to this tactic if it was sent to me?

Darryl Praill: Research your prospect like Detective Julia Shapiro does so you make sure they’re not stalking you, find ways to connect and bond with them, stay in touch with them, and to stay in touch with them, you have to connect with them. So, Oktopost, right, go out using the right social media tools to connect with them one on one, LinkedIn, Twitter, whatever it might be. Watch for milestones and give them attaboy, way to go, I noticed, congratulations, way to go.

Darryl Praill: Say thank you when they give you time or when they give you recognition and never, ever, ever hesitate to move up in the food chain, because whenever you’re closing the deal or trying to, you know, work a deal, there’s always more than one stakeholder. So you want to make sure you’re pervasive about that in your presence, but always give kudos and compliments to your main contacts so you don’t put them in a bad position. All of this is about building relationships and keeping it real. Julia, you’ve been dynamite today. If I want to learn more about you, if I want to connect with you, if I’m listening right now, what’s the best way?

Julia Shapiro: LinkedIn, let’s do it.

Darryl Praill: Let’s do it., is that right?

Julia Shapiro: It is with a K, not with a C.

Darryl Praill: That’s a very clear point, because I had a friend say, “I can’t find it.” I’m like, “K, not a C,” and he was like, “Ah, there you go.”

Julia Shapiro: It’s kind of like okay to post, but it’s pronounced Oktopost.

Darryl Praill: But it’s okay to post, I love that. So with that, we’re through another session of Inside, Inside Sales. My name is Darryl Praill. I was joined today by the very talented Julia Shapiro, Oktopost. We hope you had fun. We hope you enjoyed the human aspects of today’s conversation. We’re done now, we’re back again next week! Stay tuned, talk to you soon, bye-bye.